Can we or can we not feed soy flour?

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I cannot find a clear, straight answer to this. Various recipes, including commercial pollen patties, contain soy flour, yet soy contains sugars which are known bee poisons, such as maltose, and so some sources say soy should not be used in supplemental feeding. Can anyone point me to a clear, well-sourced conclusion on this?

 

[masterBK]

Maltose is not poisonous to bees. Most recipes stipulate defated soy flour

 

[Finman]

Patty recipes tell to you a clear answer.

If soya is defatted, add then canola oil into the the patty.


Most recipes are not good and do not work.


But you cannot feed soya flour if you do not have natural pollen to add into it.

If you put too much soya into the patty, it will be too hard to bees to bite it.

 

[sipa]

No, you cannot safely feed standard Soya Flour to bees.

See my previous posts for explanations

 

[Excession]

Maltose is found in nectar in various quantities...

I would be surprised if it is poisonous!! (See masterBK)

 

[sipa]

Maltose is not the issue.

 

[Goran]

All " stimulative" patties are here made of some way defat soya flour. Most from one company which sell soya proteins for making patties. As read some researches pretty long time ago. Soya flour has to be defatted and has to be fresh ( not to be kept for years in storage - from previous season harvested, cause by time some toxins develope in soya flour). I used the same proteins before for patties, not more as pollen replacement more to have patties with better elasticity. Now when it proven to me that without any addition of soya or pollen our fondants are with good elasticity I don't add anymore any proteins. During winter when warm spells occur bees bring huge amount of pollen. This winter till now, they gathered awesome amount of hazel pollen, then cornel, wilow, forest flowers, meadow flowers..

 

[sipa]

Just because "everybody" uses it doesn't make it right. It actually shows a lack of understanding and insight.

You are not formulating for people, pigs, cows, sheep, dogs or cats but for HONEYBEES.

They have a different set of requirements and do not have the same tolerances of other species.

You can produce a perfectly balanced mix without ANY soya flour or derivitives.

 

[Hivemaker.]

During winter when warm spells occur bees bring huge amount of pollen. This winter till now, they gathered awesome amount of hazel pollen, then cornel, wilow, forest flowers, meadow flowers..

Same here, also lots of gorse pollen available all year round.

 

[Finman]

No, you cannot safely feed standard Soya Flour to bees.

See my previous posts for explanations

Your post gives wrong imformation. It depends what is "standard". To me it is 20% fatty soy flour in super market fir human consumption, which bees eate very well.

With Hamlet protein I have used HP 100. It is meant to animal baby milk subsitute. More coarse do not work.

The most difficult is to get proper constitution into the patty, even if you mix right amounts of those stuffs, something goes easily wrong.

People use to change the recipes at once and they say that it does not work.

I have only 25 y experience about patty feeding. It is surely enough to find out what works.

I have tried all recipes which I have found. Most do not work at all.

Important is that patty has 50% sugar. It stops fermenting.
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[Finman]

Same here, also lots of gorse pollen available all year round.

I have only snow in ground when I start patty feeding. And last spring when willow bloomed, we have only few days when bees can forage willows.

But 100% of beekeepers recommend sugar feeding in spring and insist that it helps in brood rearing. But same guys hate protein feeding.
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Like I have said, I get 300% speed in spring build up with protein together with electrict heating in big colonies. But real beekeepers cannot stand that.
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Heating helps up to 17C day temp. But it is nights what are cold.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

During winter when warm spells occur bees bring huge amount of pollen. This winter till now, they gathered awesome amount of hazel pollen, then cornel, wilow, forest flowers, meadow flowers..

Same here, also lots of gorse pollen available all year round.

Never felt the need or the inclination to waste my money feeding pollen supplements - always seems to be plenty in the hives.

 

[user 6228]

Just because "everybody" uses it doesn't make it right. It actually shows a lack of understanding and insight.

You are not formulating for people, pigs, cows, sheep, dogs or cats but for HONEYBEES.

They have a different set of requirements and do not have the same tolerances of other species.

You can produce a perfectly balanced mix without ANY soya flour or derivitives.

But the products are being sold to humans
There are pet food companies putting cranberries into cat food in the U.S. even though it is well known that cranberries are toxic to cats. Why are they putting them in? because cranberries are fashionable to humans and the cranberry producers want another market.

 

[Finman]

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Nothing wrong in soya. Vain to claim. It is most used pollen substifute on eart for bees.

Over 90% out of beekeepers do not even try protein feeding but however they have opions.

First laboratory compative tests were made in USA 1977. Two independent laboratories tested different patty recipes. I took start from those recipes.
Idea was to use the cheapest basic stuffs to replace natural pollen, and they were yeast and soya.

 

[Finman]

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We have 98% humbug stuffs on suplier markets for spring build up no one say anything about those stuffs. Huge prices for sugar, 10- 6 fold for nothing.
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And guys say that they work fine!

Inverted sugar is one humbug, because animal's stomach splits sugars and starch to basic sugar units.

 

[pargyle]

There's usually plenty of pollen around in Spring in the UK ... only in a few remote locations will there be anywhere that the bees cannot fly at some point because of the adverse weather... I see my bees bringing in buckets full of pollen at the moment - whenever it is dry enough and not too windy for them to fly - the cold does not seem to bother them unduly if it's dry.

So .. I really don't see the need for the spring 'build up' that is required in other places - my bees will build up at the speed they see fit .. rather than falsely encouraging them to start brooding in earnest at a time of the year when the weather can be very changeable (as it is this weekend).

Pollen patties .. I think not.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Maltose is not poisonous to bees.

Sorry: quite right. A partial ist is galactose, arabinose, xylose, melibiose, mannose, raffinose, stachyose, and lactose (Barker and Lehner, 1974b; Barker 1976a)

I'm not seriously thinking about supplementation, but some of the recent chat re premium fondants has me thinking ahead to mini-nuc season, and there it might be useful to add protein.

 

[Finman]

Sorry: quite right. A partial ist is galactose, arabinose, xylose, melibiose, mannose, raffinose, stachyose, and lactose (Barker and Lehner, 1974b; Barker 1976a)

I'm not seriously thinking about supplementation, but some of the recent chat re premium fondants has me thinking ahead to mini-nuc season, and there it might be useful to add protein.

When I have fed nucs with patty, they have become sick. They get chalkbrood.

Mininuc does not need much pollen. Cut a small piece of pollen comb into there, if you feel that they need it. A thump tip size piece natural pollen.

 

[sipa]

So Finny, it would seem we all need to defer to your lifetimes experience because you say so.

Sorry mate, that ain't gonna happen on this subject.

Go ahead and feed soya flour, but you are still WRONG !

 

[Finman]

So Finny, it would seem we all need to defer to your lifetimes experience because you say so.!

I know because I have researched. Propably you are selling some commercial product because you insist that normal beekeeper cannot do his own patty.

Because I have studied these things in university and I understand perfectly English language researches. That is why. My main degree was in biochemistry like Plaant Physiology. You have nothing to teach me in this issue.

I have not lifetime experinece about soya. About 15 years. HP 100 I have used 10 years.

Best result what I have got with my recipe was 20 langstroth frame brood with patty. In that time no natural pollen sources bloomed.

I have teached 10 years British beekeepers in honey bee nutrition. Where you have been then when guys have written all kind of humbug here their life time.

My best hives have brought every year 150 kg honey. What went wrong? I have fed them 2 months with soya-yeast patty every year.
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You think that I cannot tell what I know about the issue?
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