Pollen Patties

[Finman]

Oh boy. That quote is really wrong.

" It is deficient in one amino acid, tryptophan."

When aminoacids are determined, it is same with all pollen examples. The methods does not rise up tryptofan, but it is there enough.

We do not speak about soya beans. We speak about processed producst which are ment to use by humans or by animals.

And don't begin to speak about GMO soya!!!!

----------------

I have Hamlet Protein HP100 and it has 2,5% fat.

Aminoacids has been balanced to be used just for born animals.

.
www.andersensa.com/eng/pdf/?id=53&idioma... - Käännä tämä sivu



HAMLET. Data sheet Typical analysis. Product description: HP 300 is a ground soya protein product for feed application purposes. It has been ... Essential Amino Acids: (g/ 16 g N) Minerals: ... Lead < 100 ppb Total plate count < 10.000/g ...


.

 

[Polyanwood]

Faith is a blessing Finman. On 'vain space', I am already a devotee.

On this feeding pollen substitute patties, I think it is a good idea, partly because you tell me so and there is research on bees to say it works.

I am trying to be more certain however (from looking at research) about the mixture of yeast, soya, date and sugar as proposed. The picture is a bit mixed.

It seems that some of the sources are against soya feeding, but it also looks as if they are linked to those that manufacture different types of pattie? I also have not understood the effect of the heat treatment on the sugars in soya, as it looks like heat mostly affects the proteins, not the sugars.

Anyway, I have faith enough to have paid money for the ingredients, so will boldly go.

(I take it that putting in citral, or thymol to make the pattie tastier is not in the recipe? I am tempted.)

 

[richardbees]

....and remember to take the stones out first or you'll ruin your food mixer

 

[Polyanwood]

True richard.

Family have been hoping that I might be going to make chocolate brownies. The soya flour looks buttery and golden and the dates look moist and plump.

 

[PBee]

Oh boy. That quote is really wrong.

" It is deficient in one amino acid, tryptophan."

When aminoacids are determined, it is same with all pollen examples. The methods does not rise up tryptofan, but it is there enough.

We do not speak about soya beans. We speak about processed producst which are ment to use by humans or by animals.

And don't begin to speak about GMO soya!!!!

----------------

I have Hamlet Protein HP100 and it has 2,5% fat.

Aminoacids has been balanced to be used just for born animals.

.
www.andersensa.com/eng/pdf/?id=53&idioma... - Käännä tämä sivu



HAMLET. Data sheet Typical analysis. Product description: HP 300 is a ground soya protein product for feed application purposes. It has been ... Essential Amino Acids: (g/ 16 g N) Minerals: ... Lead < 100 ppb Total plate count < 10.000/g ...


.

The quote refers to soya flour in general and it seemed reasonable to add as different sources may employ different processing etc.. Your product is probably a good example. From their website ...

Soya is rightfully considered the most cost-efficient source in feed, combining abundant protein supply with a favorable amino acid profile. And thanks to the unique bioconversion process developed by HAMLET PROTEIN all anti-nutritional factors are reduced to a perfectly safe level for young animals – without compromising the protein quality.

http://hamletprotein.com/en/process/soya-in-feed

I have never used pollen substitutes but if I do these are the issues I would research before using ..... including GMO - which I'm glad to see you're concerned about.

 

[Little John]

Using high-fat soya flour is not a problem if the final mixture of ingredients has a fat level of around 7% or lower. Protein levels for soya flour have been recorded at 50%. It is deficient in one amino acid, tryptophan.

I think that's the thinking behind adding dried milk powder - which is rich in tryptophan.
LJ

 

[alldigging]

I have used Neopol for the last couple of years, and yes the bees like it. Its on sale at Pay***

And out of stock

 

[Finman]

Faith is a blessing Finman. On 'vain space', I am already a devotee.

I have got an education of biological researcher in Helsinki University. My main issue was plant physiology and it is partly biochemistry.

I am devorced from shurch. Don't even try to say that I am a blessed believer.

On this feeding pollen substitute patties, I think it is a good idea, partly because you tell me so and there is research on bees to say it works.

You do with your bees what you want. It is not my case. I have feeded my bees 10 years with soya and yeast and it works. My recipe is a long thing. I have readed carefully every scietic reseach what I have found from internet.

I am trying to be more certain however (from looking at research) about the mixture of yeast, soya, date and sugar as proposed. The picture is a bit mixed.

YOu do that but it is vain to say stuff by stuff that they are posisons. What idea is in that? I have done 10 years serious work with my recipe.

It seems that some of the sources are against soya feeding, but it also looks as if they are linked to those that manufacture different types of pattie?

NO! If you want to look "information" against soya feeding, you surely find it from internet. I looked that it is really full of those harms.

As you know, cutting the queen wing and artificial insemination are really bad, - to some people.

I also have not understood the effect of the heat treatment on the sugars in soya, as it looks like heat mostly affects the proteins, not the sugars.

Have you ever made pea soup from dry peas. The phenomenom heat treatment is known as term "cooking".

(I take it that putting in citral, or thymol to make the pattie tastier is not in the recipe? I am tempted.)

OH NO!

.

 

[Finman]

I think that's the thinking behind adding dried milk powder - which is rich in tryptophan.
LJ

When I started to find out pollen supstituents, first I was worried about tryptofan.
I even started to find out, from where I can bye pure tryptofan. It is really expancive.

Then I found a mentioninf from university text that tryptofan is not missing. It just not appear with that method. And amino acid analyses are very expencive even as so.

http://www.honeybee.com.au/Library/Pollenindex.html



Nutritional Value of Bee Collected Pollens

https://rirdc.infoservices.com.au/downloads/01-047

 

[Finman]

I have never used pollen substitutes but if I do these are the issues I would research before using ..... including GMO - which I'm glad to see you're concerned about.

So I have done it 10 years.

The vitamin needs I got last spring.
It is said in many places that bees need vitamins.... but what and how much?

'Then I saw analysis from royal jelly what vitamins it has. It was amazing. They were totally different what " high quality beekeepers" had written.

Date and magnesium I got from Egytian beekeeping professor. He had made comparisions in brood rearing. His start point was to use their national food stuffs in patty. And it is 2 years ago.

 

[Finman]

.
As you see, guys are making package bees in Egypt

Application of Yeast Culture (Candida tropicalis) as Pollen Substitute in Feeding Honey Bee Colonies (Apis mellifera L.) In Egypt

T.E. Abd El-Wahab and A.M. Gomaa
Pests and Plant Protection and Agricultural Microbiology Departments,
National Research Centre, Cairo, Egypt.


Abstract:

Artificial diets of a pure liquid culture of yeast in different concentrations as pollen grains substitute were used to feed honey bee colonies and compared with traditional artificial diets, Pollen grains, single dose of Brewer’s yeast, double dose of Brewer’s yeast and pollen substitute of soybean. During the experimental
period some biological activities, areas of sealed worker and drone broods, mean number of combs covered with bees, mean number of queen cups, mean number of package bees and honey yield of the tested colonies were determined.

The obtained results showed that application of 25% and 50% of yeast culture resulted the highest significant amount of worker brood in comparison with other treatments during the period of October, 2003 to
June, 2004.

The highest significant amount of sealed drone brood was recorded in March and April, 2004 due to the application of 25% of yeast culture. Colonies fed with 25% of the yeast culture recorded significantly mean number of combs covered with bees higher than the control and the recommended traditional honey bee
artificial diets.

Producing the queen cups increased with fed colonies by 50% of yeast culture overmatched either the control or the other tested treatments followed by 25% of yeast culture especially in April, May and June. Application of yeast culture in 25% or 50% induced the highest productivity of honey yield and numbers
of package bees.

Application of Yeast Culture (Candida tropicalis) as Pollen Substitute in Feeding Honey Bee
Colonies (Apis mellifera L.) In Egypt

These alternatives has bee tested in a research and measured influence on brood amount.


- 500 g sugar + 125 ml yeast culture + 375 ml water (25%).

- 500 g sugar + 250 ml yeast culture + 250 ml water (50%).

- 500 g sugar + 375 ml yeast culture + 125 ml water (75%).

- 500 g sugar + 500 ml yeast culture + 500 ml water (100%). -

- 500 gm. of sugar + 500 ml Water + 0.0 yeast (control).

- 100 g sugar + 100 g pollen grains + 100 ml water

- 100 g sugar + 100 g Brewer’s yeast + 200 ml water

- 100 g sugar + 200 g Brewer’s yeast + 300 ml water

- 50 g sugar + 50 g Brewer’s yeast + 100g soybean

 

[itma]

.
As you see, guys are making package bees in Egypt

Application of Yeast Culture (Candida tropicalis) as Pollen Substitute in Feeding Honey Bee Colonies (Apis mellifera L.) In Egypt

T.E. Abd El-Wahab and A.M. Gomaa
Pests and Plant Protection and Agricultural Microbiology Departments,
National Research Centre, Cairo, Egypt.


Abstract:

Artificial diets of a pure liquid culture of yeast {itma - note this is Candida tropicalis!} in different concentrations as pollen grains substitute were used to feed honey bee colonies and compared with traditional artificial diets, Pollen grains, single dose of Brewer’s yeast, double dose of Brewer’s yeast and pollen substitute of soybean. During the experimental
period some biological activities, areas of sealed worker and drone broods, mean number of combs covered with bees, mean number of queen cups, mean number of package bees and honey yield of the tested colonies were determined.

The obtained results showed that application of 25% and 50% of yeast culture resulted the highest significant amount of worker brood in comparison with other treatments during the period of October, 2003 to
June, 2004.

The highest significant amount of sealed drone brood was recorded in March and April, 2004 due to the application of 25% of yeast culture. Colonies fed with 25% of the yeast culture recorded significantly mean number of combs covered with bees higher than the control and the recommended traditional honey bee
artificial diets.

Producing the queen cups increased with fed colonies by 50% of yeast culture overmatched either the control or the other tested treatments followed by 25% of yeast culture especially in April, May and June. Application of yeast culture in 25% or 50% induced the highest productivity of honey yield and numbers
of package bees.

Application of Yeast Culture (Candida tropicalis) as Pollen Substitute in Feeding Honey Bee
Colonies (Apis mellifera L.) In Egypt

These alternatives has bee tested in a research and measured influence on brood amount.


- 500 g sugar + 125 ml yeast culture {itma - note this is Candida tropicalis!} + 375 ml water (25%).

- 500 g sugar + 250 ml yeast culture + 250 ml water (50%).

- 500 g sugar + 375 ml yeast culture + 125 ml water (75%).

- 500 g sugar + 500 ml yeast culture + 500 ml water (100%). -

- 500 gm. of sugar + 500 ml Water + 0.0 yeast (control).

- 100 g sugar + 100 g pollen grains + 100 ml water

- 100 g sugar + 100 g Brewer’s yeast + 200 ml water

- 100 g sugar + 200 g Brewer’s yeast + 300 ml water

- 50 g sugar + 50 g Brewer’s yeast + 100g soybean

OK, so if Candida tropicalis is so much better than Brewers' yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae) ...

1/ where do we get Candida tropicalis

and

2/ why do we bother with Brewers' yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae) ?

 

[Polyanwood]

So I have done it 10 years..........

Date and magnesium I got from Egytian beekeeping professor. He had made comparisions in brood rearing.

magnesium and manganese or was it a typo before?

 

[Finman]

magnesium and manganese or was it a typo before?

Magnesium is Mg and manganese Mn

-

 

[Polyanwood]

Yes, and we put in both?

 

[Finman]

Yes, and we put in both?

Only mangnesium Mg

.

 

[Polyanwood]

oK.

I am impatiently awaiting delivery of the yeast. I might make some frames instead.

 

[thorn]

It's all got too scientific for me. Oliver, have you given your bees a pollen substitute this year? If so, is it home made or store bought?

 

[Finman]

.
Oliver says that in theory bees get pollen from nature every day, even in Christamas,
but dam, that weather spoils a good theory.

 

[alanf]

- 500 g sugar + 125 ml yeast culture + 375 ml water (25%).

- 500 g sugar + 250 ml yeast culture + 250 ml water (50%).

- 500 g sugar + 375 ml yeast culture + 125 ml water (75%).

- 500 g sugar + 500 ml yeast culture + 500 ml water (100%). -

- 500 gm. of sugar + 500 ml Water + 0.0 yeast (control).

- 100 g sugar + 100 g pollen grains + 100 ml water

- 100 g sugar + 100 g Brewer’s yeast + 200 ml water

- 100 g sugar + 200 g Brewer’s yeast + 300 ml water

- 50 g sugar + 50 g Brewer’s yeast + 100g soybean

From the paper:

The tested colonies were fed every 15 day intervals during the experimental period.

Is that a fair test? They fed 5 times the sugar to colonies alongside their chosen yeast variety. Results show the sugar only 'control' did as well or better than the brewers yeast, pollen or soya but why not feed the same quantity of sugar alongside the other feeds? And why choose that soil yeast in particular to cultivate? And why does the yield decrease when the dose of yeast culture increases to 500ml, producing no better yield than 0ml when 125ml or 250ml doubles yield? The research as written up seems to be partial.