Pollen Substitute - Ultra Bee

[TooBee...]

I was reading another recent thread and something called "Ultra Bee" was mentioned in the context of rearing nucs, a quick search turned up this,

https://www.mannlakeltd.com/shop-all-categories/ultra-bee/ultra-bee-patties-10-lb-4-54-kg

which according to the description helps with "Increased brood production!", the box boosts "Scientifically Formulated Patty To Provide The Best Nutrition For Honey Bees" and then states proudly "Contains No Natural Pollen".

*** Ok, let me just say I don't want to start World War Bee ***

BUT ... "The Best Nutrition" & "No Natural Pollen" are two bizarre statements to my mind, and have you read the ingredients ... if I'm not mistaken one of them is "hydrogenated Psalm Oil" yes it said Psalm ... google it ...

Not wanting to open the Flood Gates ... BUT ... what's people opinion of this stuff, why not just feed your bees a little bit of Natural (as opposed to ... un-natural) Pollen, that maybe you save from the previous year?

And does anyone have access to the "Scientifically..." documentation / research on this Un-Natural Pollen substitute???

 

[Erichalfbee]

If you have only a few hives it's difficult to collect much pollen to have spare.
Pollen feeding for the hobbyist isn't really needed in the UK
I use Ultrabee occasionally . I don't have the science available but I find it useful.
Ask Mike Palmer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbOGFxfjL44

I wish my bees were like that in Spring.....or maybe they are all in the top?

 

[sipa]

Ultrabee is in my opinion the best of a not very good bunch, it should be called a pollen supplement rather than a pollen substitute.

For all the info they put an on the box and in advertising they ignore one very crucial nutrient, Tryptophan. a limiting amino acid for honeybees. The ingredient list is also incomplete.
It's for this reason I say the best of a bad bunch.

There is no reason that a correctly formulated manufactured product could not perform equally well if not better or in fact more consistently than pollens. Especially when a wide variety of pollen sources are not available.

Brooding is dependent on available protein, so feeding early will boost bee numbers ahead of the natural cycle if stored pollen is short and or ongoing foraging is limited.

 

[Finman]

Tryptophan. a limiting amino acid for honeybees. The ingredient list is also incomplete.
.

Tryptofan is not limiting amino acid. It is only difficult to see in measuring.
.

 

[Finman]

IfPollen feeding for the hobbyist isn't really needed in the UK
?

However, hobbyists use many kind of humbug products even if they do not have protein.

Pollen patty is not needed in my country either, but I have used them 27 years.
Then beekeepers become mad when I thell that I heat my hives with electrict.

 

[sipa]

Tryptophan it self is not limiting , but it is the ratio of the other amino acids to Tryptophan that is.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Tryptofan is not limiting amino acid.

Add dried dates.

 

[For want of a better word]

Psalm oil... the Holy Grail of beekeeping ?

Yeghes da

 

[linoleum bonypart]

Are ultra bee the mannlake patties ..... I find my bees eat candipollene gold much better ..... I know they are all snake oil though

 

[masterBK]

I was of the understanding that sufficient Iso-leucine is crucial as if deficient then the bee can’t digest protein and absorb its products properly

 

[Michael Palmer]

Not wanting to open the Flood Gates ... BUT ... what's people opinion of this stuff, why not just feed your bees a little bit of Natural (as opposed to ... un-natural) Pollen, that maybe you save from the previous year?

Easy enough to trap a bit of pollen during the warm months, freeze it, and make pollen patties in the spring. Easy if you have a few colonies. I have many hundreds of colonies. No way to trap that much.

I think Ultrabee is the best on the market. Available in patty form of as a powder that you mix into patties. You can feed either way. Early spring, before pollen is available, and when bees can fly, dry form can be open fed in a bucket turned on its side. Patty form is fed as in my youtube. Either way, once pollen is readily available to the bees, they will ignore substitute.

Do you need a pollen substitute? Maybe, maybe not. Do your bees have a good pollen flow in the autumn? Do your bees get natural pollen early spring? If yes, then maybe you don't need sub. I get a good autumn flow, and then my bees are confined for 4+ months. Some springs the weather is bad enough that the bees can't fly, and they use up all their autumn stored pollen raising early brood. Without pollen coming in, brood rearing slows down. So, I use it every spring...late March through early April. One large patty per colony.

I mix in a cement mixer.
Formula:
17 lb. hot water
42 lb. granulated sugar
6 cups vegetable oil
25 lb. Ultrabee

 

[sipa]

I was of the understanding that sufficient Iso-leucine is crucial as if deficient then the bee can’t digest protein and absorb its products properly

Isoleucine is limiting in insufficient quantity, but it is the ratio to Tryptophan that optimises protein metabolism.

 

[TooBee...]

I mix in a cement mixer.
Formula:
17 lb. hot water
42 lb. granulated sugar
6 cups vegetable oil
25 lb. Ultrabee

Hi,
thanks for that reply and info. I was going to ask if anyone had their own recipes...

At 25lbs thats about $39.25, plus the other costs doesn't make it cheap, may I ask how many hives the cement mixer load (above) does? On average of course; I see your conditions are maybe more challenging than in the UK as I see you have thick snow on the ground!

 

[sipa]

In the UK in average conditions and colony size, around 1lb per week.

1 patty weighs around a lb.

 

[TooBee...]

This talk of "Isoleucine" and "Tryptophan" is getting quite technical, I've done a bit of web searching on them, but is anyone aware of papers, analysis, etc. on bee protein (food), especially in context of Pollen substitutes so that I'm more familiar with what we're referring to?

Also I recently saw a beekeeper on YouTube buying a barrel of pollen (I'm reasonably sure it was natural pollen), I understood that he was going to give it to his bees in the dry powder form: Presumably natural pollen would be the best for them (or maybe I think that some of us think that we can make better) the only reason we don't give our bees pollen in the spring (IF they need it) is we can't really collect enough ourselves or I guess it's cost is too high?

 

[madasafish]

Hi,
thanks for that reply and info. I was going to ask if anyone had their own recipes...

At 25lbs thats about $39.25, plus the other costs doesn't make it cheap, may I ask how many hives the cement mixer load (above) does? On average of course; I see your conditions are maybe more challenging than in the UK as I see you have thick snow on the ground!

I used that formula (cut down in size) this year for early spring feeding and queen rearing. Bees seem to love it.
Did it have any noticeable effects? Well my queen rearing went OK and my colonies seemed to thrive..so no obvious bad effects.

 

[alfazer]

I mix my own with 2:1 soy flour and brewers yeast plus some sugar syrup to bind. I'm no scientist, but based on my observations, they do well on it during feb/march.

Since I've taken up my gym routines and discovered protein powders I'm wondering if they would be suitable to add to the mix? Natural flavours of course, no choc, banana or strawberry.
Anyone know? They tend to be either whey or casein based.

 

[Finman]

.
I am lucky to buy irradiated pollen. I do my own mix from dry yeast, soya and pollen. Plus vitamins etc. The more bees eate patty, the more new bees emerge.

I have tried to look, how can I buy ultra bee, but I did not find.

.

 

[sipa]

I mix my own with 2:1 soy flour and brewers yeast plus some sugar syrup to bind. I'm no scientist, but based on my observations, they do well on it during feb/march.

Since I've taken up my gym routines and discovered protein powders I'm wondering if they would be suitable to add to the mix? Natural flavours of course, no choc, banana or strawberry.
Anyone know? They tend to be either whey or casein based.

Nope, milk derived proteins are not best suited to honeybees, although some have included them in the past. not something I would do.

if you must mix your own start with Soya Isolate and brewers yeast, although that would be far from perfect and not recommended.

 

[chrisb]

Hi,
thanks for that reply and info. I was going to ask if anyone had their own recipes...

At 25lbs thats about $39.25, plus the other costs doesn't make it cheap, may I ask how many hives the cement mixer load (above) does? On average of course; I see your conditions are maybe more challenging than in the UK as I see you have thick snow on the ground!

when ready made patties are £1.80 per Lb if bought in 40Lb boxes mixing like this works out at £0.65 per Lb so a lot cheaper