Can we or can we not feed soy flour?

[Finman]

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Sipa, how many years' experience you have about practical protein feeding to bees when you try to nonsense my knowledge?

 

[Finman]

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It has been same debating 2 years ago with same persons. good.
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=29057&page=2

 

[tonyofarr]

When we had the cold late spring in 2013 (after the 2012 wet summer) I lost 40% of my hives, it was so cold the bees could not fly to bring in pollen and I saved my remaining hives with pollen substitute I had made using soya flour and brewers yeast. Those hives thrived and not only survived but gave me my best honey yield per hive. If we continue to alternate between windy/wet weather and freezing cold weather I will be using pollen substitute again.

Also Beebase has a recipe for pollen substitute and it uses soya flour.

I was not the only Beek losing large numbers of colonies that year, and I got together with others in my association and we tried the pollen substitute and saved our bees.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Also Beebase has a recipe for pollen substitute and it uses soya flour.

Here............http://www.nationalbeeunit.com/public/News/news.cfm?all=y#138

 

[pargyle]

When we had the cold late spring in 2013 (after the 2012 wet summer) I lost 40% of my hives, it was so cold the bees could not fly to bring in pollen and I saved my remaining hives with pollen substitute I had made using soya flour and brewers yeast. Those hives thrived and not only survived but gave me my best honey yield per hive. If we continue to alternate between windy/wet weather and freezing cold weather I will be using pollen substitute again.

Also Beebase has a recipe for pollen substitute and it uses soya flour.

I was not the only Beek losing large numbers of colonies that year, and I got together with others in my association and we tried the pollen substitute and saved our bees.

This is not what Beebase recommend though ...

"Pollen substitutes must not be used if the colony is starving because it is more important to get feed into the colony rather than protein. Once your hives have suitable food stores, you may then place a pollen pate on the top bars, if there isn’t already a natural source coming in."

Pollen will lead them to a false conclusion that it is time to start rearing brood and you compound the problem of starvation .. feed fondant until you can see an end to the cold weather (not that we've had a bad winter this year). 2013 was exceptionally bad and went on until nearly June !

 

[Finman]

Australian recipes.

http://www.honeybee.com.au/Library/Beefeeds.html

Australians have done much work in this issue.

 

[tonyofarr]

The colonies were not starving, far from it, they were full of honey but the bees were not bringing in pollen and so brood was not being raised and all the winter bees were not being replaced by new ones. Also the wet summer/autumn the year before had prevented the bees from foraging and they had had to be fed a lot of syrup the previous autumn.

I have to add that we also had an El Nino weather system in play during that time period so I have been feeling a bit twitchy this time around and will wait and see what the weather has in store for us this year. Summer 2015 (what summer) was so poor here that most of my honey was left on for the bees and they were also fed a lot of syrup.

There is a lot of gorse, willow, hazel and crocus out here at the moment and loads of celandines but we are alternating between rain and gales and freezing cold weather and even my hardy dark bees cannot venture far in that , so if they need extra protein with this weather continuing I will make up pollen substitute and give it to them.

 

[Hivemaker.]

There is a lot of gorse, willow, hazel and crocus out here at the moment and loads of celandines but we are alternating between rain and gales and freezing cold weather and even my hardy dark bees cannot venture far in that , so if they need extra protein with this weather continuing I will make up pollen substitute and give it to them.

Much the same here, also an abundance of snowdrops, primrose and other small wild flowers, bees out collecting pollen most days here, but it is generally quite a warmish micro climate in this area, very rare thing to have even an overnight frost.

Yet only a few miles away out over it is a different story, just shows how things can be so different in other areas that are not even very far apart.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Much the same here, also an abundance of snowdrops, primrose and other small wild flowers, bees out collecting pollen most days here, but it is generally quite a warmish micro climate in this area, very rare thing to have even an overnight frost.

Yet only a few miles away out over it is a different story, just shows how things can be so different in other areas that are not even very far apart.

That few miles can make a lot of difference and is why beekeeping in Britain can be a challenge, because you have to know what's happening locally and often ignore what other beekeepers say they're doing.

Snowdrops are over here and so are some of the daffodils. ***** willow is starting to flower. Lots of camellias too, which are also a good source of pollen.

 

[sipa]

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Sipa, how many years' experience you have about practical protein feeding to bees when you try to nonsense my knowledge?

I have 40 years experience in Multi Species Animal Nutrition, is that specific enough for you ?

 

[pargyle]

There is a lot of gorse, willow, hazel and crocus out here at the moment and loads of celandines but we are alternating between rain and gales and freezing cold weather and even my hardy dark bees cannot venture far in that , so if they need extra protein with this weather continuing I will make up pollen substitute and give it to them.

Now that makes a lot of sense ... trouble is .. without the qualification of why you needed to feed pollen there are a lot of impressionable people who read this forum that would be out slapping on pollen patties when actually it's the last thing their bees actually need.

We have a microclimate here on the Costa del Fareham and as I said earlier my bees have been flying almost every day and there are buckets of pollen coming in ... so more pollen uneccessary.

 

[Poly Hive]

me thinks more than a few are missing the point. It is all very well saying oh hohoho my bees are merrily flying and bringing buckets of pollen.. or I have loads of willow, gorse, chooose your plant...

BUT

If you have an early flow and you want good colonies and it is pouring every day what price all those wonderful sources? One guess....

ZERO

Mix defatted flour, sterilised pollen at 10% and sugar to a stiff mix and feed it.


KISS

PH

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Now that makes a lot of sense ... trouble is .. without the qualification of why you needed to feed pollen there are a lot of impressionable people who read this forum that would be out slapping on pollen patties when actually it's the last thing their bees actually need.

We have a microclimate here on the Costa del Fareham and as I said earlier my bees have been flying almost every day and there are buckets of pollen coming in ... so more pollen uneccessary.

Funny: full winter still on Heat Island. One flying day in 2 weeks. Lots of pollen that day though.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Never felt the need or the inclination to waste my money feeding pollen supplements - always seems to be plenty in the hives.

I'm not sure that having plenty in the hive in the point at issue here. Finnie's style of beekeeping, where he aims above all things for a large honey crop, requires large colonies right from the start of his short season. He does this by feeding pollen patties before pollen is available in nature and he heats the hives. They may seem extreme measures to a 3-hive beekeeper like me but nobody can argue with the results - over 100kg per hive - which meets the requirements of his style and purpose of beekeeping.

I have been a beekeeper for 3 years. In that time, I have harvested 2 lbs of honey (none last year). I cannot bring myself to criticise the methods of anybody who is clearly more knowledgeable and experienced than I.

I will be making some pollen patty to Finnie's recipe and will try it on one of my colonies - with only 2 lbs of honey in 3 years, anything is worth a try!

CVB

 

[pargyle]

Funny: full winter still on Heat Island. One flying day in 2 weeks. Lots of pollen that day though.

Yes .. we get protected from the South by the IOW, the water in the Solent only moves in and out so it stays a few degrees warmer than the rest of the English channel and we have protection from the North by Portsdown hill ... rarely get heavy frosts and until a couple of years ago - no snow in living memory. I used to work in Windsor and (in the days before the M3 & M25) I would set off from home on a lovely spring morning and get stuck in the snow when I got the other side of Butser hill ...

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'm not sure that having plenty in the hive in the point at issue here.
CVB

it is exactly the point (or the point that has arisen from this subject drift ) and nothing to do with criticising finnie's methods - finny feeds as his season is shorter and there isn't much of a window to get early pollen into the hive and to get his colonies brimming and ready to go when the flow starts.
The point of feeding patties is to give the bees a substitute for foraged pollen as they have none to forage.
We are not in Finland (not last time I looked anyway) and, Having plenty in the hive means we don't have to give them any as - they have plenty of pollen! Which I believe is the point at issue.

 

[Goran]

We are here fortunate to have March pollen patties..
I don't have some pics with earlier date..
i know that is not advocated use of real pollen in patties if not irradiate. I personally know one beek who give to his 150 colonies for seasons own pollen in patties without single case of AFB or whatever..
I was listening some lecture about pollen patties and according to research that practical scientist claim due his researches, that at least 1/4 of intended soya flour amount should be real pollen - even better result than just soya flour ( importantly different percentage was but I forgot real number, so to don't lie I won't guess..).

 

[Finman]

it
We are not in Finland (not last time I looked anyway) and,.

Question was, can you feed soya flour to bees. Answer is yeas.

This issue has nothing to do with Finland.

Finally it revieled out, that LetThemBe wants to give pollen to mini nucs. He can cut a piece of pollen comb and give to the nuc.


In Finland one very big beekeeper bark my knowledge that bees get pollen themselves from nature, but he himself sells the stuff, which is 97% sugar and 3% pollen. And price to product is 6 €/kg. Normal sugar is 0.8€/kg.

When professional beekeepers say something, mostly business is more important than the truth.

When business man says something, the responsibility moves to the listener.


.

 

[tonyofarr]

Normally, where we are in Devon we have a maritime climate and the weather on the whole is warm, however the spring in 2013 was unusually cold and it was still very cold in May. I recollect that we put on the pollen substitute at the end of April. Neither me nor the other beeks had ever had to use it before, we usually have an abundance of pollen here, we are very lucky to have traditional hedgerows, some woodland and neighbouring villagers gardens. I have also not had to use it since, I just meant that in extreme weather conditions pollen substitute can be very useful.

 

[maddydog]

I'm not sure that having plenty in the hive in the point at issue here. Finnie's style of beekeeping, where he aims above all things for a large honey crop, requires large colonies right from the start of his short season. He does this by feeding pollen patties before pollen is available in nature and he heats the hives. They may seem extreme measures to a 3-hive beekeeper like me but nobody can argue with the results - over 100kg per hive - which meets the requirements of his style and purpose of beekeeping.



I have been a beekeeper for 3 years. In that time, I have harvested 2 lbs of honey (none last year). I cannot bring myself to criticise the methods of anybody who is clearly more knowledgeable and experienced than I.

I will be making some pollen patty to Finnie's recipe and will try it on one of my colonies - with only 2 lbs of honey in 3 years, anything is worth a try!

CVB

That's brutal! Finnie also says use good queens and choose your forage with care. More food for thought and not just pollen patties!