Delayed winter treatment ?

[Pete D]

What are you guys doing re winter treatment ?
Each year our association do a demo day, which this year is planned for the 12th of Dec, whereby we demonstrate to our members how to administer apibioxal and distribute kits to do it.
In the past with oxalic people took the kits away and usually did it a week or 2 later or during the festive period. Apibioxal states 'should be used within 24hrs of mixing'.
Secondly its very mild here in the east and there is almost certainly brood present in all queen right hives. Therefore treatment should be delayed until 3 weeks after a cold snap, if it comes.
My current thoughts as chairman is that we should postpone the demo day and kit distribution until 9th Jan and hope the weather gets colder in the meantime, 12 degrees again today.
I understand that we don't beekeep by the calendar but is that a reasonable thing to propose.
Personally I will treat with apibioxal / oxalic sometime in January and if it is ineffective will do as I did this year and apply some Maq's in spring.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Each year our association do a demo day, which this year is planned for the 12th of Dec, whereby we demonstrate to our members how to administer apibioxal and distribute kits to do.....................its very mild here in the east and there is almost certainly brood present in all queen right hives. Therefore treatment should be delayed until 3 weeks after a cold snap, if it comes.
My current thoughts as chairman is that we should postpone the demo day and kit distribution until 9th Jan and hope the weather gets colder in the meantime,

You're talking about an association training apiary?
Ideal.
Pop a couple of tops and have a look; 14˚ forecast for Monday.
I have brood in mine as evidenced by activity on inspection tray (useful to put one in for that reason now and again) so will be leaving it till January.
I won't be looking in mine though or trickling

 

[Hawklord]

I'm starting to vape mine on the 18th of this month. Ive just got to make a tray to go under the hive, this will mean I can just block the entrance and vape without me actually opening the hives.

 

[Erichalfbee]

The point is that it is a training apiary. It would be useful for the novices to know whether there is brood present.
Now Pete can either open a couple or put inspection trays under a few more

 

[Gilberdyke John]

What are you guys doing re winter treatment ?
Each year our association do a demo day, which this year is planned for the 12th of Dec, whereby we demonstrate to our members how to administer apibioxal and distribute kits to do it.
In the past with oxalic people took the kits away and usually did it a week or 2 later or during the festive period. Apibioxal states 'should be used within 24hrs of mixing'.
Secondly its very mild here in the east and there is almost certainly brood present in all queen right hives. Therefore treatment should be delayed until 3 weeks after a cold snap, if it comes.
My current thoughts as chairman is that we should postpone the demo day and kit distribution until 9th Jan and hope the weather gets colder in the meantime, 12 degrees again today.
I understand that we don't beekeep by the calendar but is that a reasonable thing to propose.
Personally I will treat with apibioxal / oxalic sometime in January and if it is ineffective will do as I did this year and apply some Maq's in spring.

I suppose being a training apiary you have to present a party line. Ours do a similar exercise, meeting at the apiary in the week between Christmas and New Year and members with hives in the apiary purchase trickle 2 bottles and oxalic treatment.
I'm unimpressed by the Bioxal farce but others may be less cynical?

 

[Tom Bick]

You can do the demo day and then tell the people mix the oxalic just prior to using it at their preferred time.

 

[alldigging]

You can do the demo day and then tell the people mix the oxalic just prior to using it at their preferred time.

I assumed people would be splitting packets as one lot does 10 hives and not everyone may have 10 hives.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

as it's a demo day - I do the training apiary oxalic demo at the beginning of January - I don't bother wasting money on apibioxial kits but mix up a couple of gallons of oxalic sugar solution to clean up the top bars - it's a bit of a social occasion and all members (experienced and beginners) turn up just to wish each other happy new year - I don't know what happened at the beginning of 2015 but by the time they'd all left all the oxalic solution seemed to have evaporated, either that or there was a hole in the container

 

[DerbyBee]

Would it be worth vaping 3 times with a 5 day interval between? An inconvenience for beekeepers with many hives but the one or two hive owners it would not be much work.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Would it be worth vaping 3 times with a 5 day interval between? An inconvenience for beekeepers with many hives but the one or two hive owners it would not be much work.

If you suspect there's brood there yes, it will do no harm and, as Probably there won't be much brood there ayway, give you a chance of giving them a damn good clobbering

 

[oliver90owner]

Sublimate up to tbree times now, while bees are active, and there will be no mites to trickle January. Simple as that.

I just do not understand how sheepish beekeepers are. One shows how and then the rest follow along like sheep, not questioning the situation, just copying.

In all honesty, too late if the winter bees have already been infected by reproducing mites; they will have all the viruses introduced by the mother mite and her nymphs feeding on the pupa.

Crazy, waiting until January and trickling already infected bees. It's about time beekeepers started thinking a bit more.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

not following like sheep at all - most of us treat in the autumn and do a mop up mid winter to give the bees an even better start in the spring - however good the treatment is regardless of the deluded twitterings of some, there will be some mites left in the colony (which is why there will always be a natural drop of some kind) and they will have multipled. I know the rationale of midwinter was that they would be broodless and the phoretic mites would be given a good kicking. Nowadays you'll be lucky to get a totally broodless period so you have to take the chance.
With vaping there's even no need to take off the crown board and disturb the cluster, and if you suspect there's brood just do it every five days for three treatments.

 

[Hawklord]

Would it be worth vaping 3 times with a 5 day interval between? An inconvenience for beekeepers with many hives but the one or two hive owners it would not be much work.

Doing it this way won't matter if there is brood or not. My planned date is 18th, which is my kids last day at school, 23rd when they go to their mum's for holiday, and 28th whilst I've no other commitments.

 

[BrianO]

Doing it this way won't matter if there is brood or not. My planned date is 18th, which is my kids last day at school, 23rd when they go to their mum's for holiday, and 28th whilst I've no other commitments.

Doctors Differ Patients Die.

Some say does matter re Brood , maybe I am incorrect but cannot imagine how a caustic vapour does not damage the brood.

I don't know, but have read the contrary view by a respected full time Beek to say does kill Brood.

 

[Hivemaker.]

I don't know, but have read the contrary view by a respected full time Beek to say does kill Brood.

Believe what you want, but after doing thousands of doses, even way above the normal dose, simply to observe the effect, and hundreds of observations of brood in all stages, i have not seen any damage to brood in any way.

On the other hand, Trickling oxalic is a different story.

 

[beeno]

Hi Peter D,
I second your proposal.

 

[BrianO]

Believe what you want, but after doing thousands of doses, even way above the normal dose, simply to observe the effect, and hundreds of observations of brood in all stages, i have not seen any damage to brood in any way.

On the other hand, Trickling oxalic is a different story.

Well. I believe that, if you have observed as such.

As I said, I don't know, as going on an article I have read, but as you say you have observed and treated. I am awaiting my gear to allow me to Vape.

That's good to hear so now I do not need to worry about nuking the brood.

Which no doubt there is given the temps and activity .

 

[Finman]

.
IT is December now and you treat you hives like in summer.
Is it better to do treatments in August or at the behinning of September.

And trickling. It is always sdviced that trickling kills brood. But when hive has brood, tricklng does not help, because 80% of mites are under brood caps.

And that rumour, that oxalic trickling kills Queen, that is nonsense.

Idea us to treat hives before the colony rear winterbees. IT does not help, if mites have already violated the brood.

 

[Thymallus]

no need to take off the crown board and disturb the cluster, and if you suspect there's brood just do it every five days for three treatments.

Not seen the cluster appear disturbed when I've lifted the crown board and dribbled....sometimes need a torch to find the seams of bees in some hives.
If I'm killing any brood...so be it.
My concern about vaping is how effectively does the vapor penetrate into a tight cluster of bees over the short period of treatment?

 

[Erichalfbee]

My concern about vaping is how effectively does the vapor penetrate into a tight cluster of bees over the short period of treatment

There may be a clue in the amount of noise they make?