Oxalic Acid

[Ian123]

Stick to Vimto with added rhubarb leaves extract or use rhubarb leaf extract in your vaporiser and you will be beyond the law... when or if you get prosecuted by the VDMA or whoever... you can plead deminished responsibility... or Dave told you it was OK !!!

I think you’ll find used as a medicine Vimto and the rhubarb leaves also require a license

 

[Fritillary]

ITLD's use of the word 'almost' noted in post 53!
I always think: what would be the reaction in the country if this sort of thing were attempted now with eg aspirin or paracetamol?

 

[Finman]

If you hit with hammer a varroa bug, is it an accepted method

 

[GuyNir]

If you hit with hammer a varroa bug, is it an accepted method

What type of hammer?

 

[Ian123]

What type of hammer?

An unlicensed hammer

 

[Finman]

What type of hammer?

A modern Chinese

 

[ericbeaumont]

But it doesn't answer my question. If there is no change in the quantity of OA before and after treatment how would they know if you had treated?

If you treat early or late in the year when the Inspectors are hibernating there is zero chance of the discovery of OA traces. Even supposing a beekeeper treated with OA in season, would it coincide with the almost immediate taking by an Inspector of a honey sample?

This law is unenforceable and makes minor criminals of ordinary beekeepers. Not wishing to become one, I spent many minutes yesterday scraping repeatedly at the unnecessary caramelised junk in the Sublimox pan.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If you hit with hammer a varroa bug, is it an accepted method

Only if it's of pharmaceutical quality

 

[ChrisS]

I use generic OA for cleaning the pan of my Varrox vaporiser and the inside of my Gas-Vap. I find it does an excellent job when heated to the correct temperature. According to Thornes it is also good for returning my beehives to their natural colour. Maybe I could use the Gas-Vap to apply it to the woodwork? All these activities are of course perfectly legal.

 

[GuyNir]

If you treat early or late in the year when the Inspectors are hibernating there is zero chance of the discovery of OA traces. Even supposing a beekeeper treated with OA in season, would it coincide with the almost immediate taking by an Inspector of a honey sample?

This law is unenforceable and makes minor criminals of ordinary beekeepers. Not wishing to become one, I spent many minutes yesterday scraping repeatedly at the unnecessary caramelised junk in the Sublimox pan.

No problem in Scotland at any time. They’re massively understaffed...

 

[Newbeeneil]

If you treat early or late in the year when the Inspectors are hibernating there is zero chance of the discovery of OA traces. Even supposing a beekeeper treated with OA in season, would it coincide with the almost immediate taking by an Inspector of a honey sample?

This law is unenforceable and makes minor criminals of ordinary beekeepers. Not wishing to become one, I spent many minutes yesterday scraping repeatedly at the unnecessary caramelised junk in the Sublimox pan.

I agree Eric, but my point was that the literature says that after treatment with Apibioxal there will not be any increase in the amount of OA (so I assume the same with generic OA) so...... how would the AO be detected in a honey sample?

I have found a nice quick way of de gunking the pan of my Gasvap by using a rotary wire brush on a battery drill, it takes seconds.
https://www.toolstation.com/abracs-decarb-wire-brush-set/p15615

 

[BugsInABox]

This law is unenforceable and makes minor criminals of ordinary beekeepers. Not wishing to become one, I spent many minutes yesterday scraping repeatedly at the unnecessary caramelised junk in the Sublimox pan.

Erm Eric, if I’ve got this, unless you used the licensed product correctly (ie not sublimation) then criminal you still are - except of course you were just cleaning the hives! Phew. Maybe.
BIAB

Edit- this is wrong, see below.

 

[BugsInABox]

But it doesn't answer my question. If there is no change in the quantity of OA before and after treatment how would they know if you had treated?

Don’t FLAGRANTLY break the law I think was tiger answer?

 

[BugsInABox]

Lol....that was 11.5 years ago now. The industry knew the correct story and circled the wagons admirably.

Wasn’t it 2017?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Erm Eric, if I’ve got this, unless you used the licensed product correctly (ie not sublimation) then criminal you still are - except of course you were just cleaning the hives! Phew. Maybe.
BIAB

you are allowed to sublimate the licenced product within the stipulations of said licence

 

[BugsInABox]

you are allowed to sublimate the licenced product within the stipulations of said licence

back to the drawing board.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Let's throw some numbers at this issue.

Suppose you use 2.25g of OA to treat the interior of your beehive, which consists of a brood box and a super with 10 frames of uncapped nectar/honey.

Let us assume that half of the sublimated OA find its way into the the super and that all of that OA ends up in the resulting honey - two very improbable assumptions!

Wt of OA in honey = 1.125g
Wt of honey in super = 20Kg = 20,000g
Percentage change in OA in honey due to 'treatment' = 0.006%

That percentage might be detectable in a product that does not normally contain Oxalic Acid but in honey, which naturally contains OA, I suspect it's undetectable for evidential purposes.

The thing to do is keep your nose clean, don't pick a fight with the VMD or the NBU and deny everything!

'Nuff said?

CVB

 

[pargyle]

I suspect that the VMD will have bigger fish to fry than seeking out a few beekeepers who are doing what they have been doing for years without interference ...but.. the risk is always there that they will seek out someone to make an example of ... like the HSE the VMD does not have sufficient personnel to pursue every case ... they rely on prosecuting a token number of cases - go for the maxuimum penalties (even if they don't achieve them) and the maximum exposure and publicity. That's how they discourage others from breaking the law.

 

[ericbeaumont]

you are allowed to sublimate the licenced product within the stipulations of said licence

Crazy rules: in the VMD database lie instructions for sublimation of ApiBioxal that state: It is recommended to follow manufacturer’s instructions in order to achieve maximum sublimation.

Awkward to report that the Sublimox instructions state that only pure OA must be used.

 

[elainemary]

If you treat early or late in the year when the Inspectors are hibernating there is zero chance of the discovery of OA traces. Even supposing a beekeeper treated with OA in season, would it coincide with the almost immediate taking by an Inspector of a honey sample?

This law is unenforceable and makes minor criminals of ordinary beekeepers. Not wishing to become one, I spent many minutes yesterday scraping repeatedly at the unnecessary caramelised junk in the Sublimox pan.

Hi when you use API Bioxal in a Sublimox, does it block the spout at all? If so, approx after how many treatments? How do you clean the spout?
Thanks!
Elaine