Oxalic Acid

[Karol]

<snip>

As a matter of interest ...what happened to the Flow hive ? Not heard much lately ...

Flowhive 2.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Sharing knowledge is what I thought this forum was all about, not trying to score cheap points with 'witty' remarks, but it suits some folks.

Well you haven't really given any reason or fact based data as to why you think you should destroy comb destined for honey supers if it has been exposed to OA sublimation - so how about sharing that 'knowledge' when asked?.
However, there has been plenty of discourse on here as to why it's perfectly safe.
A glib 'Gut feeling' remark tells noone anything, just shows your general ignorance of the facts in this matter

 

[papa_sierra]

Big fish, small pond syndrome showing. I'll leave you to it.

 

[roche]

As far as I can see, the main driver for patents is in the corporate world, where they can sit on the balance sheet as an asset. The fact that the patent itself devalues the commercial value of the idea seems to be ignored by accountants and venture capitalists.

 

[beebopper]

Well you haven't really given any reason or fact based data as to why you think you should destroy comb destined for honey supers if it has been exposed to OA sublimation - so how about sharing that 'knowledge' when asked?.
However, there has been plenty of discourse on here as to why it's perfectly safe.
A glib 'Gut feeling' remark tells noone anything, just shows your general ignorance of the facts in this matter

To be fair the poster was just being honest where others try to back their gut feeling to the hilt with little actual thorough evidence.

 

[beebopper]

As far as I can see, the main driver for patents is in the corporate world, where they can sit on the balance sheet as an asset. The fact that the patent itself devalues the commercial value of the idea seems to be ignored by accountants and venture capitalists.

A good patent is incredibly valuable if it gives you a competitive advantage. This is why new drugs are expensive - they cannot be copied for 20 years which gives a great deal value to the company making the drug.

However, many people patent things which are difficult to defend or apply to a small market so have little value or are simply of no better than other products on the market or have major drawbacks that the invented is too invested to see.

As with all things it depends how good the innovation is. In the case of the gasvap I doubt the cost of patents would be justified by the relatively small market. It would also be quite difficult to get a patent as other similar ideas are already in the public domain. Moreover the gas vap has already been made public which makes it impossible to now patent.

As for the actual danger involved with using it - I cannot see how it it more dangerous than other sublimation methods. Ideas that it could explode seem far fetched. How could pressure build ? If any blockage of the out let then it would vent through the gaps in the lid. Could it really overheat? I really doubt it if only used on a hobby scale. The idea that the gas bottle could explode sound alarming but I would expect somebody to have found the gas bottle warming up if this was a real possibility.

However some kind of liability insurance would be a sensible move but I fear may be very difficult to get as the actual risk is difficult for a company to assess particularly given the possible premium it could charge to make it viable to the inventor.

I wonder if it would be easier ways to limit the liability eg set up a small company with no assets so if anything happen you could simply close the company. Just an idea - although a little unscrupulous its the way of the world (well according to my company lawyer brother).

I will certainly use the gasvap without fear.

 

[roche]

I think my point is that the patent erodes the competitive advantage.

A good patent is incredibly valuable if it gives you a competitive advantage. This is why new drugs are expensive - they cannot be copied to 20 years which gives a great deal value to the company making the drug.

However, many people patent things which are difficult to defend or apply to a small market so have little value or are simply of no better than other products on the market or have major drawbacks that the invented is too invested to see.

As with all things it depends how good the innovation is. In the case of the gasvap I doubt the cost of patents would be justified by the relatively small market. It would also be quite difficult to get a patent as other similar ideas are already in the public domain. Moreover the gas vap has already been made public which makes it impossible to now patent.

As for the actual danger involved with using it - I cannot see how it it more dangerous than other sublimation methods. Ideas that it could explode seem far fetched. How could pressure build up.

However some kind of liability insurance would be a sensible move but I fear may be very difficult to get as the actual risk is difficult for a company to assess particularly given the possible premium it could charge to make it viable to the inventor.

I wonder if it would be easier ways to limit the liability eg set up a small company with no assets so if anything happen you could simply close the company. Just an idea - although a little unscrupulous its the way of the world (well according to my company lawyer brother).

I will certainly use the gasvap without fear.

 

[beebopper]

I think my point is that the patent erodes the competitive advantage.

Sorry don't understand how you mean.

A good patent protects you from others using your innovation. People are willing to pay if this is better than other products. If you mean cheap knock offs then this just illustrates that the patent has value. There is enough people willing to pay the full price for the real thing. This is particularly true for drugs - would you take an illegal copy?

 

[MartinL]

feeling very victimized here,

in defense of my invention the gasvap it is copper pipe, it is inert,

Copper if one of the transitional elements and IS NOT INERT.



If you can not be believed on this simple matter what does it say for you other inventive claims?

 

[roche]

Sorry don't understand how you mean.

A good patent protects you from others using your innovation. People are willing to pay if this is better than other products. If you mean cheap knock offs then this just illustrates that the patent has value. There is enough people willing to pay the full price for the real thing. This is particularly true for drugs - would you take an illegal copy?

A patent discloses the innovation. So someone else can achieve the same end result in a manner which does not violate the patent, but has been guided by the detail revealed in the patent.

 

[masterBK]

Big fish, small pond syndrome showing. I'll leave you to it.

Another forum member gone? Lets all try not to be so rude to people in future even if some on here find that difficult

 

[enrico]

I agree, I have pm:d them in the hope that they might stay around but I doubt the pm will ever be read now. I despair at the unecessary rudeness when one opinion does not match another from another member. Sad
E

 

[mbc]

Another forum member gone? Lets all try not to be so rude to people in future even if some on here find that difficult

No rudeness by my reading, apart perhaps from p-s breaking forum rules and kicking the player as soon as jbm called the him/her out for being silly over the vaped supers without anything to back it up beyond gut feeling, it's a shame as I think it's a conversation worth exploring about oxalic vapeing and residues in supers, although there's some work been done on it I'm sure we need more specific and authoritative information 're oxalic residues.

 

[enrico]

That was the point. A new member stated what they did with their hives, in no way did the advocate that others did the same, and then they get slated for the suggestion. Why be rude about the way others look after their hives? We are all different and have different beliefs. Accept that and offer polite criticism without being rude about it
E

 

[john t]

Beebopper thats an excellent summary

the idea of a patent had crossed my mind, but i wanted to put it out in the public domain for several reasons

varroa is the biggest enemy of our bee population in my opinion and if this device can help beekeepers keep control of the pest it will be my contribution to beekeeping,
and to make the design freely available to individuals prevents some company putting a patent on it,
im still happy to assist if anyone wants to make their own or i can supply one

my other project if successful will also be shared just like the gasvap,

Martin l, i dont want to say to much at this stage because it requires finishing and testing ,and i can only test in the active season,

john t

 

[beebopper]

A patent discloses the innovation. So someone else can achieve the same end result in a manner which does not violate the patent, but has been guided by the detail revealed in the patent.

But you are ignoring the whole point of a patent. It protects your idea. You disclose the information but it is legally protected - nobody can use your innovation for 20 years.
No reputable company would copy your idea as they would end up in court.

 

[Karsal]

Gas Vap

Here we go again!

Someone comes up with a good idea and others seem P!55ed off that it's not their idea and start to attack the person making it and those using it.
It bloody well works and is an excellent piece of kit against varroa. It may be illegal to vaporise oxalic acid under the VMD but hey ho so is going through red lights and the authorities are so stretched they are seldom caught. What's a lowly beekeeper in the pecking order. Apibioxal is oxalic acid tarted up for a massive mark up in price.

Leave John T alone and let him get on with his Gas-Vap

 

[roche]

But you are ignoring the whole point of a patent. It protects your idea. You disclose the information but it is legally protected - nobody can use your innovation for 20 years.
No reputable company would copy your idea as they would end up in court.

That's the theory, however....

 

[BKF Admin]

Another forum member gone? Lets all try not to be so rude to people in future even if some on here find that difficult

Its a real shame,and not the first time I have been asked to remove a new members acount.
The thing is everytime I go through the new members posts its always the same old members upsetting them.


I am not saying other members are wrong,just that its the same old names....

 

[BKF Admin]

Here we go again!

Someone comes up with a good idea and others seem P!55ed off that it's not their idea and start to attack the person making it and those using it.
It bloody well works and is an excellent piece of kit against varroa. It may be illegal to vaporise oxalic acid under the VMD but hey ho so is going through red lights and the authorities are so stretched they are seldom caught. What's a lowly beekeeper in the pecking order. Apibioxal is oxalic acid tarted up for a massive mark up in price.

Leave John T alone and let him get on with his Gas-Vap

What's a lowly beekeeper in the pecking order
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=38821