Oxalic Acid

Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum

Help Support Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Status
Not open for further replies.

pargyle

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
***
BeeKeeping Supporter
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Messages
17,863
Reaction score
9,062
Location
Fareham, Hampshire UK
Hive Type
14x12
Number of Hives
6
In the light of the recent threads regarding the sublimation of generic Oxalic Acid any new beekeepers should be aware that:

A. It has not been authorised as a treatment in the UK for Varroa (the 'Oxalic acid' that has been licenced is Api-Bioxal which is OA in a sugar solution but is not as convenient to use in a sublimator). You are breaking the law if you use generic Oxalic Acid on your bees and you could be prosecuted.

B. Oxalic Acid Vapour is VERY DANGEROUS to your health. If you decide to use this type of treatment you do need to protect your eyes and lungs because if you inhale the vapour or get it in your eyes it is likely to cause permanent damage.

If you are intending using OA in any form you would do well to read the following articles: (They are from the USA but are really good articles).

https://www.beeculture.com/using-oxalic-acid/

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-heat-vaporization-and-other-methods-part-2-of-2-parts/

There will be those people along shortly who will say that 'I use it and it's fine' just stay up wind of the vapour ... they are WRONG.

It is rapidly becoming clear that OA is by far and away the best treatment for varroa.. and sublimation, by whatever means you choose, is undoubtedly the best way to deliver it into the hive. But ...

PLEASE PLEASE - use a suitable fume quality face mask, wear eye protection, use gloves when handling it. Your lungs and eyes are usually the only ones you get provided with.

Any 'medication' used on your bees must be licenced by the The Veterinary Medicines Directorate (VMD) which is a government agency that controls the medicines used on - amongst other things - your bees. This is important because bees should not come to harm from medications intended to help them, either because they are stored badly or misused, and these medicines should not affect humans who consume bee products. It is high time that generic OA is licenced by the VMD but it costs a lot of money to licence a product and nobody will pay for a licence for a product that can be bought anywhere, by anyone, at a low price. Perhaps the BBKA should be taking a lead on this as they are the only organisation who could/would want to do this on behalf of beekeepers in the UK.

Manufacturers of appliances that deliver OA - particularly those that use heat to create sublimation should also be aware of the responsibility they face for the safe use of their products by the purchaser of said product and should take note of the prosecuting ability of the Health & Safety Executive should anything go wrong and the end user is harmed as a result of using the appliance.
 
Manufacturers of appliances that deliver OA - particularly those that use heat to create sublimation should also be aware of the responsibility they face for the safe use of their products by the purchaser of said product and should take note of the prosecuting ability of the Health & Safety Executive should anything go wrong and the end user is harmed as a result of using the appliance.

Product liability insurance is the basic minimum that should be in place if selling anything on a commercial basis. I'm assuming John has this, otherwise it is very lackadaisical of Tradex to a allow a trader on without it as it opens them up to any damage claims.
 
"Perhaps the BBKA should be taking a lead on this as they are the only organisation who could/would want to do this on behalf of beekeepers in the UK."

As I understand it, only manufacturers can have product tested as testing includes controls on manufacturing and product quality and packaging and instructions. So the BBKA would have to choose a suitable manufacturer to have their own OA to be licenced.. and it would be chemically identical to its competitors so indistinguishable from unlicensed products.

So not a viable option.
 
"Perhaps the BBKA should be taking a lead on this as they are the only organisation who could/would want to do this on behalf of beekeepers in the UK."

As I understand it, only manufacturers can have product tested as testing includes controls on manufacturing and product quality and packaging and instructions. So the BBKA would have to choose a suitable manufacturer to have their own OA to be licenced.. and it would be chemically identical to its competitors so indistinguishable from unlicensed products.

So not a viable option.

BBKA do not represent all of the beekeepers in the UK..... and have minimal power over the government even as a pressure group!

At the moment products have to conform to EU standards and are tested by various different Licenced testing and acreditation companies..... CE marking and the such God only knows what chaos will rain down on us after the 29th.... container loads of Chinese knock off counterfeit goods already on their way no doubt

:calmdown:
 
BBKA do not represent all of the beekeepers in the UK..... and have minimal power over the government even as a pressure group!

At the moment products have to conform to EU standards and are tested by various different Licenced testing and acreditation companies..... CE marking and the such God only knows what chaos will rain down on us after the 29th.... container loads of Chinese knock off counterfeit goods already on their way no doubt

:calmdown:

EU standards are part of UK law. Period..
Remain or Leave.

Have you missed the Bill which made all EU regulations part of UK law?
https://tinyurl.com/y3spkumy

Hysterical rubbish just lowers the tone of the debate..(is that possible?):paparazzi:

(And I voted Remain )...
 
I keep seeing people using OA on YouTube with no protection. I always consider them in terms of natural selection, where I hope their genes don't travel too far.

I always use a full mask with 3M organic vapour filters. Why on earth would one be so daft as to take such a risk?
 
I keep seeing people using OA on YouTube with no protection. I always consider them in terms of natural selection, where I hope their genes don't travel too far.

I always use a full mask with 3M organic vapour filters. Why on earth would one be so daft as to take such a risk?

He's called Millet
 
He's called Millet
I went up to Millet's Apiary over Christmas and he was vaping with a full mask on so he was protected. I was standing 10m up wind from it to witness it and still managed to inhale a tiny whiff. Even that little bit of vapour caused me to cough intensely. It showed me that if I ever started using that form of treatment, I would make sure I had all the correct protective gear.:eek:
 
I went up to Millet's Apiary over Christmas and he was vaping with a full mask on so he was protected. I was standing 10m up wind from it to witness it and still managed to inhale a tiny whiff. Even that little bit of vapour caused me to cough intensely. It showed me that if I ever started using that form of treatment, I would make sure I had all the correct protective gear.:eek:

Although we are now living in a nanny state you do need to use a suitable face mask while using a sublimox or the other gas vape type..the 12v heated pan are no where near as bad but it is still advisable to use a mask..;)
 
Thank you Nanny for that sage advice..............

You are very welcome ... you only need to get one whiff of OA vapour on your lungs to know you never want to let that happen again. My taste of OA was a self inflicted accident when I decided to test my home built one (REDWOOD's Design) with just a tiny bit of OA in the pan .. caught me entirely by surprise at how fast it sublimated and how much vapour came from such a small amount ... Coughing for about 10 minutes !
 
I have posted links to the MSDS in the past and from a background which included writing the COSHH for an entire drilling rig believe me you want the right PPE.

BTW the COSHH ran to over 3000 chemicals. The stuff that electricians and mechs seem to need is mind boggling.

PH
 
In the light of the recent threads regarding the sublimation of generic Oxalic Acid any new beekeepers should be aware that:

A. It has not been authorised as a treatment in the UK for Varroa (the 'Oxalic acid' that has been licenced is Api-Bioxal which is OA in a sugar solution but is not as convenient to use in a sublimator). You are breaking the law if you use generic Oxalic Acid on your bees and you could be prosecuted.

B. Oxalic Acid Vapour is VERY DANGEROUS to your health. If you decide to use this type of treatment you do need to protect your eyes and lungs because if you inhale the vapour or get it in your eyes it is likely to cause permanent damage.

If you are intending using OA in any form you would do well to read the following articles: (They are from the USA but are really good articles).

https://www.beeculture.com/using-oxalic-acid/

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-heat-vaporization-and-other-methods-part-2-of-2-parts/

There will be those people along shortly who will say that 'I use it and it's fine' just stay up wind of the vapour ... they are WRONG.

It is rapidly becoming clear that OA is by far and away the best treatment for varroa.. and sublimation, by whatever means you choose, is undoubtedly the best way to deliver it into the hive. But ...

PLEASE PLEASE - use a suitable fume quality face mask, wear eye protection, use gloves when handling it. Your lungs and eyes are usually the only ones you get provided with.....

Thank you very much for this Pargyle, I have spent most of my free time over the weekend reading up about OA vaporizing (and also Fogging FGMO, not as effective as ... eveything else used today), this reinforces to me the seriousness of this product, I had been led to believe that "it's not that bad", but you have convinced me that when I use this, I MUST take it very seriously, you may have saved me an injury, or at least a coughing fit, Thank You, Mate, appreciated.
:winner1st:
 
Oh dear I'll have to get the rhubarb leaves tested!!!

Given that it's natural and a food (by product) it's not regulated. As for efficacy, that's another matter.
 
Thank you very much for this Pargyle, I have spent most of my free time over the weekend reading up about OA vaporizing (and also Fogging FGMO, not as effective as ... eveything else used today), this reinforces to me the seriousness of this product, I had been led to believe that "it's not that bad", but you have convinced me that when I use this, I MUST take it very seriously, you may have saved me an injury, or at least a coughing fit, Thank You, Mate, appreciated.
:winner1st:

It's not just a case of the acute side effects of inhaled OA that are of concern. Long term repeated exposure could potentially culminate in iatrogenic pulmonary fibrosis as a result of build up of localised microscopic scarring within the lungs.
 
Steady on Karol! Many on here would not recognise or understand those words (especially those with more than two syllables).

Like most think the fumes are a vapour, which it is most certainly not as it needs to be above about 160 degrees Celsius to be that - any lower and it will most certainly condense to a fine mist of solid particles. Most certainly, to get to that form the oxalic acid was required to be vapourised (by sublimation, not ‘boiling’).

Certainly mullet’s face mask, even if a rudimentary one, would prevent a lot of solid particles going through, but without details of the oxalic particle sizes and the actual type of mask, we don’t know if the mask was the correct one for the application. Basic face masks would not, of course, stop a vapour.
 
Steady on Karol! Many on here would not recognise or understand those words (especially those with more than two syllables).

any lower and it will most certainly condense to a fine mist of solid particles.

Why do you need to insult people on here.

BTW

A mist is a mixture of liquid particles in air. You should use smoke to describe solid (& liquid) particles in air. An irrelevant point, but as you are such a pedant I thought it worth amusing myself and pointing it out.

Shame goggle failed you and these are only one syllable words.

:cheers2:
 
Product liability insurance is the basic minimum that should be in place if selling anything on a commercial basis. I'm assuming John has this, otherwise it is very lackadaisical of Tradex to a allow a trader on without it as it opens them up to any damage claims.

feeling very victimized here,

in defense of my invention the gasvap- it is copper pipe, it is inert, it can not cause harm of any kind
the gas torch i recommend is CE approved

the demonstration i have provided is using empty hives demonstrating the effectiveness of the vaporization

this is just another OA method of treatment

my literature states to use approved OA products and follow sensible safety precautions
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top