Oxalic Acid

[Arfermo]

Finny, I know you are an expert in everything, but in the UK any treatments given to food producing animals are legally required to be recorded. If you are buying and using any old OA you are outside of the law that’s there to prevent contamination of honey. Not in my head, written in law

I’m sure the Finish medicines agency (FIMEA) has the same basis in law, and last time I looked European food standards agency covered Finland.

However, i’m Sure you know better

Always did know everything about everything which is why I switched him off years ago. Just plain rude too often.

 

[Amari]

Presuming that is a rhetorical question. Quite sure you know the answer to that.
Part of a bee inspection can be....and have direct experience of this...is asking to see your medicines record. Happened during a routine honey sampling visit.
So...who is going to make the entries in there that could form the basis of your own prosecution?

I wonder what proportion of inspections include an examination of medication records? Because of an EFB scare, all known apiaries around here were inspected this summer. I attended some of these and records were not asked for - nor on two previous inspections of my apiaries in the last ten years.

 

[polymath]

I would add a couple of comments to this if I may. Firstly the VMD only licence products to be used in sublimation once per year on bees. I quote below the personal email I have from Professor Ratnieks that two treatments are best - seperate email said 7 - 10 days apart.

Secondly running an Enhanced Sentinel Apiary I get three inspections a year, to date they have never requested to look at treatment cards. Their interest and time is spent on disease control i.e. EFA/AFB/Small hive beetle. A full day is about 15 - 20 hives inspected normally. Even when my honey is sent away for sampling they are not checking for Oxalic Acid residue.

I could not of course comment on whether I am prepared to pay exorbitant, rip off, outrageous prices for added rubbish or use the strictly illegal pure stuff.

Dear David

We have done research to show that single and double applications of oxalic acid, 2.25g, by sublimation in brood less hives cause no harm to bees or colonies. The research we do and the advice we give is not for any one country but general, and beekeepers can adapt this to their own situation. It is a pity that the regs for VMD in UK only permit a single application per year by sublimation, when two applications can be done with no harm to the colony and increases the varroa kill to 99.6%, and suggests that the regs could usefully be changed, in light of the scientific evidence, to permit two or multiple applications. I will leave that for the powers that be to sort out.

best regards, Francis

 

[mbc]

I wonder what proportion of inspections include an examination of medication records? Because of an EFB scare, all known apiaries around here were inspected this summer. I attended some of these and records were not asked for - nor on two previous inspections of my apiaries in the last ten years.

Not many I imagine, largely because of this farce caused by oxalic, I doubt many sbi's go the extra mile in using the substandard expensive option themselves so wouldn't want to put themselves in the hypocrite bracket, also, if doing their jobs conscientiously they'll be keen to maintain excellent working relationships with their beekeepers so the blind eye is best all round.
This doesn't stop the hanging threat being an intrusion nor the obvious skew on any data they're collecting re what treatments are used if any.

 

[Buzzlodge]

Firstly the VMD only licence products to be used in sublimation once per year on bees.

VMD can only licence what the product promoters apply and submit evidence for.

 

[rampino]

Oxalic acid 99.5% pure 250g for £2.99 Apibioxal £8.55 for 35g (of which most is glucose and talc filler).
No contest! How is it’s use going to be policed anyway, the government can’t be bothered to stop adulteration of honey with syrup made from rice. (Too much money being made)

 

[ericbeaumont]

the VMD only licence products to be used in sublimation once per year on bees.

The spec. was written in 2016 but has been edited recently. The VMD Product Information Database on page 9 of A has it all: on the right hand side in the associated docs. column sit three options: view SPC, view QRD-auth. or view PAA. The PAA update reveals little: which member states are included? How many repeat applications are permitted? More bureaucratic nonsense, light years from Planet Practical.

Post Authorisation Assessments
API-Bioxal, 886 mg/g Powder for In-hive Use​

04 March 2020 Repeat Use application to add 1 new member state. 08 January 2020 Change in the safety database of an existing pharmacovigilance system as described in the DDPS. 22 February 2017 Repeat Use application to add 5 new member states 14 June 2016 Renewal – UK CMS 19 January 2016 Addition of a new specification parameter of an active substance and of the finished product.

​

 

[Apple]

The spec. was written in 2016 but has been edited recently. The VMD Product Information Database on page 9 of A has it all: on the right hand side in the associated docs. column sit three options: view SPC, view QRD-auth. or view PAA. The PAA update reveals little: which member states are included? How many repeat applications are permitted? More bureaucratic nonsense, light years from Planet Practical.

Post Authorisation Assessments
API-Bioxal, 886 mg/g Powder for In-hive Use​

04 March 2020 Repeat Use application to add 1 new member state. 08 January 2020 Change in the safety database of an existing pharmacovigilance system as described in the DDPS. 22 February 2017 Repeat Use application to add 5 new member states 14 June 2016 Renewal – UK CMS 19 January 2016 Addition of a new specification parameter of an active substance and of the finished product.

​

Irrelevant to UK beekeepers as of 1st January 2021?

 

[mbc]

Irrelevant to UK beekeepers as of 1st January 2021?

Rules and regs are staying as is for now, any and all changes will go through due process.

 

[Swarm]

Rules and regs are staying as is for now, any and all changes will go through due process.

Probably a good few years down the road.

 

[tawny]

I would add a couple of comments to this if I may. Firstly the VMD only licence products to be used in sublimation once per year on bees. I quote below the personal email I have from Professor Ratnieks that two treatments are best - seperate email said 7 - 10 days apart.

Secondly running an Enhanced Sentinel Apiary I get three inspections a year, to date they have never requested to look at treatment cards. Their interest and time is spent on disease control i.e. EFA/AFB/Small hive beetle. A full day is about 15 - 20 hives inspected normally. Even when my honey is sent away for sampling they are not checking for Oxalic Acid residue.

I could not of course comment on whether I am prepared to pay exorbitant, rip off, outrageous prices for added rubbish or use the strictly illegal pure stuff.

Dear David

We have done research to show that single and double applications of oxalic acid, 2.25g, by sublimation in brood less hives cause no harm to bees or colonies. The research we do and the advice we give is not for any one country but general, and beekeepers can adapt this to their own situation. It is a pity that the regs for VMD in UK only permit a single application per year by sublimation, when two applications can be done with no harm to the colony and increases the varroa kill to 99.6%, and suggests that the regs could usefully be changed, in light of the scientific evidence, to permit two or multiple applications. I will leave that for the powers that be to sort out.

best regards, Francis
[Firstly the VMD only licence products to be used in sublimation once per year on bees.]
Re the once a year, if a treatment is two doses would this be classed as once a year

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Re the once a year, if a treatment is two doses would this be classed as once a year

No - it's classed as two treatments

 

[tawny]

Not like a covid vaccination then.. I guess the aim is for solely a winter treatment

No - it's classed as two treatments

 

[Apple]

Not like a covid vaccination then.. I guess the aim is for solely a winter treatment

Difference is( so we have been lead to believe?) that the Covid (Oxford) research and manufacture has been provided to the UK Government at cost.

This OA licencing and the VMDs involvement is (IMOHO) an absolutely scandal!

Hopefully the discovery of Varroa attacking the honeybees fat body will lead to some efficacious method of the beast from hell # V. destructors destruction!!

Chons da

 

[victor meldrew]

No - it's classed as two treatments

I’ve always relied on one treatment per annum since the pyrethrum ( bayvoral) based treatments ceased to be effective in my area .