Your advice, opinions and comments would be very much appreciated.

[OldFarm]

That did cross my mind. I'm a bit wary of greatly disturbing the new swarm that arrived a few weeks ago. They are pulling out foundation and there are eggs and grubs. Also pollen and honey. They are very docile and I was able to sit quietly with a frame and carefully study them closely (no veil getting in the way!), looking at their bodies for the tell-tale little red dots. I didn't pull the hive to pieces since I know there is a queen in there. However, looking down I didn't notice any drone cells. If I had, I would have had a look inside.

I think a sugar roll may well be a good idea to gauge how many are actually in residence in the other hive. If it shows a high count then the newer colony will be rolled too.

I happened to see this Bee Gym thing and wondered if it was any use. Mr JBM has confirmed my suspicions, (Thank you Mr JBM.)

Malcolm B.

When the varroa are sitting on the backs of the bees, they are looking to transfer to another bee because the feeding stations on the bee they are on are occupied. Varroa feed on the underside of the bee, slipping under one of the abdominal segments close to the thorax. Dr Samuel Ramsey has several varroa videos that are worth watching.

 

[ericbeaumont]

wary of greatly disturbing the new swarm

You won't, so get in to confirm what is necessary: health of brood (esp. advanced open).

While you're there, move a frame of foundation into the middle of the nest (repeat when drawn).

 

[Malcolm B.]

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions.

Like most things in life, I can see that opinion is divided here regarding the effectiveness of the 'Gym'. I was expecting that, but the ensuing comments and discussion have served very well to educate me further.

Two more points spring to mind.
(1) I use D.E. (Diatomaceous earth) to control Red Spider Mite in our chicken houses and have found it quite effective. Somewhere, (I don't recall the location) I saw a reference to using D.E. in beehives as an ancillary control method for Varroa.
I would be interested to see your comments on the use of D.E. as a weapon against varroa

(2) I watched Ian123's link in August 2021 to the "Bee Sauna." The Bee Sauna
Again, I would value seeing the collective comments regarding this from you all. I'm not considering using this treatment but I would be interested in reading your input.

I'm certainly not trying to re-invent the wheel but I am aware that control methods that work in one set of circumstances often will not be as effective, or even completely ineffective in a different set of circumstances. (and vice versa)

I am simply attempting to evaluate my particular circumstances, allowing me to continue to care for the bees that have chosen to live here in our hives, using the least amount of intervention, upset and disturbance. Rightly or wrongly, this has been my philosophy with bees for the past forty years - but I do need to move and keep apace with changing times.

Thank you all for your valued contributions.

Malcolm B.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I use D.E. (Diatomaceous earth) to control Red Spider Mite in our chicken houses and have found it quite effective. Somewhere, (I don't recall the location) I saw a reference to using D.E. in beehives as an ancillary control method for Varroa.
I would be interested to see your comments on the use of D.E. as a weapon against varroa

Never heard of that for varroa - but sounds the same as sprinkling icing sugar over the bees to control varroa.
a bit like the bee gym it's a waste of money and has a five minute impact on varroa levels

 

[Malcolm B.]

You won't, so get in to confirm what is necessary: health of brood (esp. advanced open).

A very good point. Once the swarm arrived I left them alone for about ten days or so. Then I had a quick look inside. Foundation was being drawn quite quickly. I slipped out a frame and saw both eggs and small grubs. There was a good pattern of laying so I looked no further and closed them up again. As I mentioned a few weeks ago, they seemed a little light on stores so I took an almost full super from the other hive and placed it upstairs for them.

I spent a little while a few days ago studying a frame and its occupants but saw nothing to alarm me at that time.

While you're there, move a frame of foundation into the middle of the nest (repeat when drawn).

Does this accelerate the drawing of foundation for more brood?
In the past I have occasionally moved outer frames of drawn comb into the center in an effort to increase the 'laying area' in a smaller colony.

Malcolm B.

 

[bpmurray]

Here is a scientific study of the Bee Gym. It was partially funded by Stuart Roweth who invented it, but it still says "We conclude that this change in slope is not evidence of a significant positive effect of the Bee Gym. Hence, there is no clear evidence from this study that the Bee Gym increases mite fall through enhanced grooming by the bees."

As for not being able to see varroa, my rule of thumb is that if you can actually see the mites on bees, the hive is close to collapse. I get a wide spread of mite numbers doing a sugar roll, with some hives showing a dozen and some showing one or even none. And I never see a mite in any colonies. I always vape swarms with Apibioxal since it's the perfect time to hammer the mites.

 

[Malcolm B.]

Never heard of that for varroa - but sounds the same as sprinkling icing sugar over the bees to control varroa.
a bit like the bee gym it's a waste of money and has a five minute impact on varroa levels

The fine powder is abrasive and is also hygroscopic. The Red Spider Mite only infest chickens at night while roosting on the perches. During the day they hide in cracks and crevices. A liberal dusting of DE along the perches, in cracks and on the surrounding woodwork prevents some mite from reaching the chickens and kills those that attempt to cross it.

I believe I saw that DE was sprinkled on the bottom tray of the hive to promptly kill any fallen varroa. It only attracted my attention because I already use DE.

Malcolm B.

 

[Malcolm B.]

Here is a scientific study of the Bee Gym.

Thank you. I have saved that for reading this evening.

As for not being able to see varroa, my rule of thumb is that if you can actually see the mites on bees, the hive is close to collapse.

That was my line of thinking - If I could see them then there would be very significant numbers.

Malcolm B.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I believe I saw that DE was sprinkled on the bottom tray of the hive to promptly kill any fallen varroa. It only attracted my attention because I already use DE.

Can't recall seeing anything about using DE to control varroa - to be honest, I don't use it on my chickens either!!
You will find that there are myriad crackpot ideas out there with claims of efficacy in varroa control, thankfully, most get ignored.

The fine powder is abrasive and is also hygroscopic

I recall something about it being carcinogenic as well.

 

[Sutty]

I recall something about it being carcinogenic as well.

I doubt this, my understanding is that it is pretty harmless to larger animal - indeed it is available in food grade!
However I'd be concerned if using it on bees that the microscopic sharp edges could also damage bees' feet and antennae.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I doubt this,

Quite a few studies out there which say continued exposure can increase the risk of lung cancer.

 

[Malcolm B.]

I recall something about it being carcinogenic as well.

You are correct.
If the fine dust is inhaled over a period of time, it can cause silicosis and other lung diseases.

DE used to be used as a swimming pool filtration medium in the 50's 60's and 70's. With the impact of the Health & Safety at Work Act 1974 it gradually lost favour because:-
(a) A special type of filter was required.
(b) Respirators are essential when handling it when dry.
(c) It is a "Total Loss" filtration medium requiring replacing every 7 to 14 days (depending on bather load).
(d) Being Total Loss and also completely insoluble, the effluent cannot be discharged in the the normal sewers as is the effluent from the usual Sand Filter.

We noticed a sharp decline in its use over the years and when I retired we had only two or three retail clients using it and resisting the change to sand filtration.

indeed it is available in food grade!

Yes. It has been used in toothpaste.

However I'd be concerned if using it on bees that the microscopic sharp edges could also damage bees' feet and antennae.

That is a very valid point and was my concern also. The powder is too fine to hurt chickens but if it can damage and kill Red Spider Mite, bees could also be affected. I seem to remember the suggestion for DE to be sprinkled on the bottom board and below the varroa mesh. It was suggested that the fallen varroa would be killed once on the board. I'm racking what's left of my brains to remember where I read this!!!!!

Do varroa simply sit where they have fallen or do they attempt to climb back up into the frames?

Malcolm B.

 

[Sutty]

You are correct.
If the fine dust is inhaled over a period of time, it can cause silicosis and other lung diseases.

DE used to be used as a swimming pool filtration medium in the 50's 60's and 70's. With the impact of the Health & Safety at Work Act 1974 it gradually lost favour because:-
(a) A special type of filter was required.
(b) Respirators are essential when handling it when dry.
(c) It is a "Total Loss" filtration medium requiring replacing every 7 to 14 days (depending on bather load).
(d) Being Total Loss and also completely insoluble, the effluent cannot be discharged in the the normal sewers as is the effluent from the usual Sand Filter.

We noticed a sharp decline in its use over the years and when I retired we had only two or three retail clients using it and resisting the change to sand filtration.


Yes. It has been used in toothpaste.

That is a very valid point and was my concern also. The powder is too fine to hurt chickens but if it can damage and kill Red Spider Mite, bees could also be affected. I seem to remember the suggestion for DE to be sprinkled on the bottom board and below the varroa mesh. It was suggested that the fallen varroa would be killed once on the board. I'm racking what's left of my brains to remember where I read this!!!!!

Do varroa simply sit where they have fallen or do they attempt to climb back up into the frames?

Malcolm B.

Incidentally redmite (Dermanyssus gallinae) is a different species to red spider mite, which is a pest for gardeners & attacks plants.
The best treatment for redmite is to treat the coop inside and out with old fashioned coal tar creosote - but now unfortunately only available in the UK for professional use (and unsuitable for bees too!)

 

[Erichalfbee]

Malcolm. Take a look at this
https://www.diatomaceousearth.com/b...aceous earth harm bees,yes; it can harm them.

 

[Sutty]

Quite a few studies out there which say continued exposure can increase the risk of lung cancer.

Certainly inhalation could be harmful. I was thinking of ingesting in food.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Do varroa simply sit where they have fallen or do they attempt to climb back up into the frames?

they'll climb back up - that's why the inspection boards should only be put in when you are conducting a mite count (but it's a pretty useless method of monitoring mite loads in the first place) to be honest, a mesh floor, even when left open has very little impact on the mite population

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I was thinking of ingesting in food

never felt the urge to snack on the gleaning from the chicken shed floor

 

[Malcolm B.]

they'll climb back up

I wonder if a thin layer of DE across the board would have an impact on the Varroa? What are your thoughts?

 

[Malcolm B.]

I was thinking of ingesting in food.

It is in some toothpastes - as is pumice stone powder.

 

[Sutty]

I wonder if a thin layer of DE across the board would have an impact on the Varroa? What are your thoughts?

You can make the board sticky with eg a smear of vaseline, but as above, the effect on the numbers of mites in the hive will be negligible.