'The Pine Hive' - Advice please?

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Purplewax

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Good Afternoon everyone,

Despite bumbling around on here anonymously for the past few months, I'm a new profile and I'm still not entirely sure what the forum etiquette is regarding new posters. Assuming this post is okay, I'd like to ask for the help and advice of the Beekeeping Forum collective..

My name is Jon Steven and I have recently completed my final year of BA 3D Design and Furniture at the University of Northumbria. My design work is heavily influenced by my passion and fascination for the natural world. The use of eco-friendly materials and processes has always been of importance to me but until recently, this has only ever been in the context of furniture-based projects. However, in my last project I shifted focus, creating an eco-friendly and affordable beehive in the hopes that it could contribute to the re-stabilisation of the bee population.

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"The Pine Hive has been moulded from an analysis of existing products, advice from professional beekeepers, the natural world and most importantly, the Bee itself. With the same internal dimensions as the National Hive, the Pine Hive allows an interchangeability of pre existing parts such as frames and mesh floors, thus reducing waste from any potential upgrades. The hive also features an open mesh varroa mite tray held in a base that uses a simple design, allowing the hive to be turned either way to increase or decrease the entrance space in alignment with the seasons/age of the colony. An observation panel is set into the pine front of the brood box and the roof features a rubber-based flower bed with drainage holes that can be lifted using a set of soft hemp rope handles. The grips on the outer edges allow for ergonomic movement with each box slotting neatly into place atop the next thanks to an efficient 45° angle cut into two parallel panels per box. The theory of 'bee space' has been incorporated into the design meaning that all negative space is between 6mm and 10mm, thus reducing the chances of a build up of propolis or filler wax. The flower bed encourages people to not only add to bee population but to increase the amount of flowers and vegetation in the chosen environment, also giving the colony it’s own private supply of harvestable nectar. Realistically, the close proximity of this flowerbed limits it's usefulness for the bess, but it adds an element of organic customisation that will hopefully appease the keeper. The lightly-treated pine gives the product a natural aesthetic, allowing it to be incorporated into any green environment whilst the subtle confidence of the product gives the hive the ability to camouflage itself within any chosen environment, urban or rural, yet still flow with and enhance its surroundings."


Materials: Pine, Stainless Steel (brackets, mesh), Hemp (handles), Perspex (observation window)

Dimensions: H765mm x W480mm x D480mm

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I firmly believe that the extortionate costs of the majority of beekeeping equipment is a swift deterrent for the average working person and in the interest of both bees and humanity, this needs to change. This brings me on to my main reason joining the Beekeeping Forum. At this point in time, I have a working prototype (more of which can be seen at: www.purplewax.co.uk) but I now wish to speak to as many beekeepers as possible and get feedback on the functionality, aesthetics, potential problems and any other aspects that you feel may help me push this project on further. I am completely open to friendly advice, industry offers, offers on a personal level, potential collaborations and anything else that you feel might contribute to the cause. Whilst I realise that realistically, I do need to make money to actually push my ideas onwards, I would just like to mention that the main aim of this project isn't about making money, but rather to bridge the financial gap between the average working person and the joys of beekeeping, as well as doing my bit for the global bee population.

At the moment, my future plans for the hive design include:

- Changing the material from pine as despite the affordability it brings to the build, it decreases the durability and longevity of the product. Also, the appearance isn't quite as pleasant as it would be had I used Iroko, Western Red Cedar or something similar. I also found that during the build, the pine would warp in the ridiculous summer heat of the workshop. This is something that could be fixed by monitoring the temperature of the build space but I would rather just re-think the material. However, any changes to material would directly impact the overall cost which is an important factor of the my design. I guess with a low-cost hive, the customer must also accept that with the money they save, it might only last 10 or so years (with an annual re-coating). As I would be aiming the pine version at the beginner-beekeepers, this does not present too much of a problem but if there are any suggestions of potential materials then that would be much appreciated!

- Angling the ridges down slightly to avoid water pooling and instead give it a place to run down from.

- Adding an inspection tray - pretty straight forward!

- The most difficulty I had during the research part of the build was when it came to choosing the finish. I searched the beekeeping forums and found lots and lots of opinions, but many contradicting each other. In the end I got a bit lost and chose Linseed oil as it seemed to have cropped up the most. If there are any other recommendations that you think I might not have considered, then that would also be hugely helpful.

- I would also like to get a general response on whether or not you think the aesthetics (form, not material) of the hive might look good in a more luxurious, yet still sustainable wood. A darker, hardwood perhaps that could then be sold to the more experienced beekeeper at a slightly higher cost, but with the added benefit that it would last a lot longer.


The design of the 'Pine Hive' is my own creation but I could not have done it without the patient assistance of Ian Wallace, a prominent beekeeping figure in the North East. I entered the beekeeping world as a designer with a pipe dream but no real knowledge of bees, beekeeping or the limitations one has to work to in designing for a living (and very picky) creature. Ian graciously enlightened me about the complexities of the bee and then provided me with the information I needed to make a start on the design process. I have compiled one booklet of the research I collected throughout the journey and another booklet that served as my own evaluation of the end-product. You can read them both here:

http://issuu.com/jonsteven/docs/bee_book_print
http://issuu.com/jonsteven/docs/beevaluation

For more information on myself, the Pine Hive and my other designs, please feel free to go to:

www.purplewax.co.uk

or email me at:

[email protected]

All the best, and I really look forward to speaking to you all!
Jon

ps. I feel like it's worth mentioning that I am now without my uni workshop space (anybody with any information on finding another one would instantly go down in my good books) but I feel like I've put so much work into this, and believe in the idea so much that I will make it happen at some point - even if its a slow process whilst I work primarily on other things.
 
Problem I see is that is you cant slide one box onto another, or am I misinterpreting the 45 angle bit?
 
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You can. I've just tried to make it a lot more secure than having them simply rest on top of one another.
 
Yep, sorry, I can understand now, but me thinks the bees will have a lot of fun gluing those together.

It seems as if you have put a lot of work into this but....the rails on each box???

Water traps. Excess weight....

Do you have a pic of the inside of a box without any frames please?
 
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Have you kept bees in one of these? I wonder how easy your tiers will part after propolis in the 45 angled batons. What frame size did you base this on? looks neat!
 
As you can tell, I'm a designer not a beekeeper (yet) haha
It's all a learning process though :)

I see your concern on the water trap point. This is only the first prototype though, on the second I will be angling the rails down slightly to hopefully eliminate the chances of a water build-up. In terms of unnecessary weight, there is not actually much more wood used in the construction of these than there would be in the construction of the standard National. Whereas the standard National has handles indented into the thicker side panels, the side panels on this hive are thinner with the rails (handles) protruding outwards. It's essentially the same amount of wood yet used in a different way. I actually went for the all-surrounding rails as one of the biggest points raised by the beekeepers I spoke to was that with the gloves on, getting a good grip on the standard national was harder than it should be. This method just means that whatever way you were to pick up a box, you could be pretty confident to retain a secure grip. Dropped bees are never happy bees after all! :)
 
Have you kept bees in one of these? I wonder how easy your tiers will part after propolis in the 45 angled batons. What frame size did you base this on? looks neat!

I think we would have to redesign the hive tool, to get them apart.
 
Have you kept bees in one of these? I wonder how easy your tiers will part after propolis in the 45 angled batons. What frame size did you base this on? looks neat!

I haven't yet - it's still just a concept. Now I'm back home from uni though, I can set it up and see how it works! I always knew that it was never going to be an easy product to test, not like a chair or a table where it's pretty obvious if it works or not - if you fall off it, it doesn't work aha

The frames were BS nationals I think, I can't remember the exact name though. I begrudgingly bought them on Thorne because I ran out of time to make my own! Thanks :)
 
National hives made to the most commonly recognised design dont need handles.

I'm curious to see how you have made the ends where the frame lugs sit and reduced the space betwen the frame and the end wall.
 
This is the first one I built. The second one I built was very similar apart from a few things. I'd changed the direction of the 45degree angles from going diagonally down and in, to going diagonally down and out as it eliminated the chances of rain dribbling into the hive. I'll try and find a picture of the amended version!
 
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Not great but this is probably the best image I have at the moment that shows where the lug ends sit. If I'm honest, I simply cut down the lug ends on each frame and they fit snugly inside.

They rest on a small, cylindrical length of Aluminium rod (subject to change) so as to keep flat edge from flat edge.
 
Hi Purplewax,
Congratulations! That's a beautiful looking hive and you've done well to get it to this stage. Please keep us informed as you make further progress and please do ask as many questions as you wish. I hope to support you further in the future when you get to the marketable-product stage.
 
I've just had a look at your project booklet thingy. It suggests a projected retail price of £120, that's only £25 cheaper than Th***es Bees on a budget hives. You will struggle to get a decent quality hive and undercut the major hive producers. If you focus on quality and innovation then you will almost certainly find a market for your product. The choice to use B.S dimensions is an excellent idea and will allow easy transfers for new customers from their old hives.

Perhaps those bulky handles could be used to hold insulation for winter, potential spin-off product?

the roof garden is IMHO a problem as many beekeepers (inc. myself) turn their roofs upside down to rest supers on during inspection. Beekeepers don't like changing practices if they can help it, I find.

The observation point could be bigger as it would give a better view of the colony.

In terms of budget beekeeping no one would choose anything so attractive as your hive because it would almost invariably be out of the true 'budget' price range. Those looking for a cheap hive build it themselves usually.

M
 
:iagree:
National hives made to the most commonly recognised design dont need handles.

I'm curious to see how you have made the ends where the frame lugs sit and reduced the space betwen the frame and the end wall.
 
Hi Ewardking, thank you! I'm a fair way off from being completely happy with it but I did want it to be an ongoing project. It keeps me occupied :) I'll definitely keep that in mind though!

Hey Dishmop, I think i'm getting confused then.. I remember basing the internal dimensions on the National, but I think my inspiration for the handle section on the outside came from another hive. Or possibly my own imagination? I just remember trying to take the best bits of each hive and to somehow incorporate my own spin on them into my own. I'm looking now though and I can't seem to find a relative example of a hive with handles.. - definitely my own imagination aha

Hi Mellifera297, yeah I actually think you're completely right. From the start, I wanted to design something for those people like myself with not much income but realistically, if someone wants a hive then they will either build one or buy a budget hive from Th---es. I guess theres not much wiggle room below that base price, and definitely not much potential for profit. I think I may have got a tad too wrapped up in my quest for affordability, sometimes it's just not practical/feasible. Would you suggest moving my target market upwards and instead aiming to create a bespoke hive for the more affluent keeper?

I have to admit, when I was testing how the hive would assemble/disassemble I found that the supers fit perfectly in the space that the roof garden would be. A surprising convenience and one that probably needs investigating a bit more. Would you suggest removing the flowerbed on top then? It was more done from an aesthetic standpoint rather than for efficiency - would not be sorely missed!

A larger observation hole is very achievable :) Any recommendations for the transparent material? I'm using perspex at the moment but if I were to move the hive more upmarket then perhaps glass would work equally well.

Thankyou (everyone) for you help and advice btw, hugely appreciated!
 
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Not standard national frames.......

Commercial?
 
The general idea is that frames should fit a box without having to saw bits off.
Your hive is not national size and its not qute commercial size either.
Sorry for the negative feedback but you need to take another look at your dimensions....and a few beehive boxes... Buy a self assembly box from one of the suppliers.

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/natbrood.html
 
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"I found that the supers fit perfectly in the space that the roof garden would be. A surprising convenience and one that probably needs investigating a bit more. Would you suggest removing the flowerbed on top then? It was more done from an aesthetic standpoint rather than for efficiency - would not be sorely missed!"

Bees don't forage that close to their own hive .. even rubber lined and with 'drainage' holes I envisage a problem with water and moisture near to the bees in Winter - they really don't like cold and damp.

"A larger observation hole is very achievable :) Any recommendations for the transparent material? I'm using perspex at the moment but if I were to move the hive more upmarket then perhaps glass would work equally well."

Best observation panel is not in the side of the hive but is a clear crownboard . side windows (except in some Warre boxes) are largely a waste of time - bees rapidly cover them in propolis and they become impossible to see through and a beggar to clean if you have a colony in there.


There are rather too many nooks and crannies for my liking - water traps (which will rapidly destroy pine) and whilst they are aesthetically pleasing just add weight and cost to the production process.

One of the joys of handling a standard 'National' hive is that you can drop the box or super onto the box underneath, placing it diagonally on the box below and then twist it horizontally into position - without crushing bees. You have no idea about how many bees will get into your angled joints and get crushed - will give you hygiene problems and dead, squahed bees, can promote angry reactions.



Sorry ... I hate to pour water on your parade - it's a lovely looking hive - but there are some practical fundamentals associated with keeping bees in a box that you need to learn before you go much further. I've been involved in building my own 'experimental' hive and I've got so much that doesn't/won't work without serious modification that I've almost given up in favour of more conventional solutions to the bee box. Don't get me wrong - I love my 'designed' hive but as an easy to use, easy to build hive - in many respects - it's not.

There is a lot of wheel reinventing in beekeeping and the reality is that some very clever beekeepers over decades of years have tried just about everything .. the wheel reinventers (like me !) tend to be relatively new to beekeeping and rapidly find that there's nothing new in beekeeping and the KISS principle always wins in the end. If it works - don't fix it !
 
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