I'm embarrassed that I started beekeeping only last July 16th.

[Micklemus81]

Thank you for the chance to join this Beekeeping Forum. I hope the very experienced beekeepers in this forum will not mind or be offended by the fact that I have two so called Flow Hives.
I intended from day one to look after these incredible bees with the utmost respect and with the care they most definitely deserve.
I have always been in awe of these cleaver insects. I love honey and my wife does too. This is not least because it's a damn good antioxidant. Was it a miracle that honey cured my sore throat a couple of weeks ago? I think not. My old dad told me years ago, honey healed tropical ulcers that the Japanese prisoners had nothing else to use.
I was an engineer but at 81 I fear I should have bought the two bee hives I have much sooner.
I said to my wife in mid June of 2021, the only thing we are short of is a bee hive. I was at the time noticing the scent of our inedible Citrange orange tree, 30 years old outside that had the most wonderful scent descending on me while I was sitting in the gazebo.
A month later I saw what seemed to me a good idea and price on 'A' a new fangled Flow hive. Fair enough I have had to make a few additions to it to improve the design but it was much cheaper than the genuine Flow hive that was out of reach financially for me. The original I believe has the open mesh floor that I had to add & which I thought was an essential addition to the one I could afford.

No honey in the first season but this year the flow hive does seem to work. I was not warned about varroa mites by anyone but now there is another colony as of this year early June that was lathered in them I have had to learn quickly and the hard way how to kill them.
I really hate varroa. The first colony of last year are exploding with bees but the new nuc of Buckfast bees are only now nearly rid of the damn things after approximately 20 days of the correct treatment with oxalic acid.
I find it incredible that the beekeeper who sold me the last colony advertises that he uses no chemicals on his bees! Clearly then it's about time he did. Is oxalic acid classed as a chemical, or ,is it not?
He seems good at producing honey but not, it is disappointing to say, of keeping varroa in check.
I will never say who he is.
I might just one day show him the jar with a thousand varroa in it that dropped off his bees after 20 days or so. I keep a daily record of the separate days 'drops'. The record shows that most of those varroa came with the bees.
I ask myself, and all of you with your expertise, would these incredible bees be alive after this winter without my intervention?
I really hope I haven't bored everyone with the long intro? I am so keen to learn and do what's best for the bees.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hello. You are welcome Flow Hives and all. There are a few members here who do keep them.
Your flow super is simply a novel way of harvesting the honey. The beekeeping is still the same, so stick around. This is the best beekeeping forum on the planet and is a treasure trove of information. Post your questions in the beginners section and the only silly question is the one you didn't post and went ahead and made a mistake.
To answer both your penultimate and ultimate questions. NO

Do post your modifications

 

[Ian123]

Hi first off do not be embarrassed about when you started, there are many new beekeepers here and everyone had to make a start at some point! As to flow hives well you may well get some comments The fact is bees are remarkably adaptable and are world wide kept in many different bee containers, many times despite the best efforts of erstwhile beekeepers. I for one don’t like way flow hives got sold as it simply makes beekeeping appear easy any hard work or management was very much glossed over. Also the prices are extortionate. Simple wood hives are available at a fraction of the cost, not to mention the original purchase of a flow hive never include enough bits to really make them viable.
As to your bees every hive sold will have varroa what ever treatments are applied. But any half decent beek or suppliers will ensure to the best of their ability numbers are low and within the critical threshold, even then you could expect an exception for a multitude of reasons. That’s not in anyway an excuse it’s simply fact, there are also beekeepers who are chemical free but that’s another storey some have bees bred for resistance others employ management that will reduce varroa, some of course are just plain Cuckoo It’s not easy, there are also many claims for such bees and few ever make the grade in any practical sense. There are many treatments for varroa and yes oxalic is a good 1, there is also thymol based products for those wish to avoid harsher chemicals.
None can really say for certain if your bees would have survived or not, if it was as bad as you suggest probably not! and by treating you certainly would have done them a favour. The best advice to any new beek is be adaptable and practical, find experience with other beeks the good and the bad. Finding the right ones may prove difficult though.EBay is also great for getting rid of your flows

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Thank you for the chance to join this Beekeeping Forum. I hope the very experienced beekeepers in this forum will not mind or be offended by the fact that I have two so called Flow Hives.
I intended from day one to look after these incredible bees with the utmost respect and with the care they most definitely deserve.
I have always been in awe of these cleaver insects. I love honey and my wife does too. This is not least because it's a damn good antioxidant. Was it a miracle that honey cured my sore throat a couple of weeks ago? I think not. My old dad told me years ago, honey healed tropical ulcers that the Japanese prisoners had nothing else to use.
I was an engineer but at 81 I fear I should have bought the two bee hives I have much sooner.
I said to my wife in mid June of 2021, the only thing we are short of is a bee hive. I was at the time noticing the scent of our inedible Citrange orange tree, 30 years old outside that had the most wonderful scent descending on me while I was sitting in the gazebo.
A month later I saw what seemed to me a good idea and price on 'A' a new fangled Flow hive. Fair enough I have had to make a few additions to it to improve the design but it was much cheaper than the genuine Flow hive that was out of reach financially for me. The original I believe has the open mesh floor that I had to add & which I thought was an essential addition to the one I could afford.

No honey in the first season but this year the flow hive does seem to work. I was not warned about varroa mites by anyone but now there is another colony as of this year early June that was lathered in them I have had to learn quickly and the hard way how to kill them.
I really hate varroa. The first colony of last year are exploding with bees but the new nuc of Buckfast bees are only now nearly rid of the damn things after approximately 20 days of the correct treatment with oxalic acid.
I find it incredible that the beekeeper who sold me the last colony advertises that he uses no chemicals on his bees! Clearly then it's about time he did. Is oxalic acid classed as a chemical, or ,is it not?
He seems good at producing honey but not, it is disappointing to say, of keeping varroa in check.
I will never say who he is.
I might just one day show him the jar with a thousand varroa in it that dropped off his bees after 20 days or so. I keep a daily record of the separate days 'drops'. The record shows that most of those varroa came with the bees.
I ask myself, and all of you with your expertise, would these incredible bees be alive after this winter without my intervention?
I really hope I haven't bored everyone with the long intro? I am so keen to learn and do what's best for the bees.

Hi first off do not be embarrassed about when you started, there are many new beekeepers here and everyone had to make a start at some point! As to flow hives well you may well get some comments The fact is bees are remarkably adaptable and are world wide kept in many different bee containers, many times despite the best efforts of erstwhile beekeepers. I for one don’t like way flow hives got sold as it simply makes beekeeping appear easy any hard work or management was very much glossed over. Also the prices are extortionate. Simple wood hives are available at a fraction of the cost, not to mention the original purchase of a flow hive never include enough bits to really make them viable.
As to your bees every hive sold will have varroa what ever treatments are applied. But any half decent beek or suppliers will ensure to the best of their ability numbers are low and within the critical threshold, even then you could expect an exception for a multitude of reasons. That’s not in anyway an excuse it’s simply fact, there are also beekeepers who are chemical free but that’s another storey some have bees bred for resistance others employ management that will reduce varroa, some of course are just plain Cuckoo It’s not easy, there are also many claims for such bees and few ever make the grade in any practical sense. There are many treatments for varroa and yes oxalic is a good 1, there is also thymol based products for those wish to avoid harsher chemicals.
None can really say for certain if your bees would have survived or not, if it was as bad as you suggest probably not! and by treating you certainly would have done them a favour. The best advice to any new beek is be adaptable and practical, find experience with other beeks the good and the bad. Finding the right ones may prove difficult though.EBay is also great for getting rid of your flows

Thank you for the chance to join this Beekeeping Forum. I hope the very experienced beekeepers in this forum will not mind or be offended by the fact that I have two so called Flow Hives.
I intended from day one to look after these incredible bees with the utmost respect and with the care they most definitely deserve.
I have always been in awe of these cleaver insects. I love honey and my wife does too. This is not least because it's a damn good antioxidant. Was it a miracle that honey cured my sore throat a couple of weeks ago? I think not. My old dad told me years ago, honey healed tropical ulcers that the Japanese prisoners had nothing else to use.
I was an engineer but at 81 I fear I should have bought the two bee hives I have much sooner.
I said to my wife in mid June of 2021, the only thing we are short of is a bee hive. I was at the time noticing the scent of our inedible Citrange orange tree, 30 years old outside that had the most wonderful scent descending on me while I was sitting in the gazebo.
A month later I saw what seemed to me a good idea and price on 'A' a new fangled Flow hive. Fair enough I have had to make a few additions to it to improve the design but it was much cheaper than the genuine Flow hive that was out of reach financially for me. The original I believe has the open mesh floor that I had to add & which I thought was an essential addition to the one I could afford.

No honey in the first season but this year the flow hive does seem to work. I was not warned about varroa mites by anyone but now there is another colony as of this year early June that was lathered in them I have had to learn quickly and the hard way how to kill them.
I really hate varroa. The first colony of last year are exploding with bees but the new nuc of Buckfast bees are only now nearly rid of the damn things after approximately 20 days of the correct treatment with oxalic acid.
I find it incredible that the beekeeper who sold me the last colony advertises that he uses no chemicals on his bees! Clearly then it's about time he did. Is oxalic acid classed as a chemical, or ,is it not?
He seems good at producing honey but not, it is disappointing to say, of keeping varroa in check.
I will never say who he is.
I might just one day show him the jar with a thousand varroa in it that dropped off his bees after 20 days or so. I keep a daily record of the separate days 'drops'. The record shows that most of those varroa came with the bees.
I ask myself, and all of you with your expertise, would these incredible bees be alive after this winter without my intervention?
I really hope I haven't bored everyone with the long intro? I am so keen to learn and do what's best for the bees.

Welcome. I'll just add to other posters comments to say remember your engineering training when faced with situations that will inevitably arise in beekeeping. Nous and logic go a long way towards solving them.

 

[Ian123]

Nous and logic go a long way towards solving them.

Then remember the bees will then chuck all the nous and logic right out the front door

 

[madasafish]

We all knew nothing about bees when we started beekeeping. Most of us are not so old that we cannot remember our first mistakes and utter ignorance..

So don't feel embarrassed : we'll laugh with you - or cry as the case may be. Remember bees cannot tell you what is wrong with them and often change their minds

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

remember your engineering training when faced with situations that will inevitably arise in beekeeping. Nous and logic go a long way towards solving them.

And according to my former Chief Engineer - usually a bigger hammer is the answer

 

[pargyle]

Welcome ... no embarrassment at all in being late to beekeeping .... it does tend to be a hobby that those either nearing retirement or are already retired gravitate towards. It's a time consuming craft and as you are aware - high start up costs - it appeals to those with more time at the right time and the disposable income to support it in the early years. I know beekeepers, still with bees, well into their 90's .. as long as you are fit and can still manage the physical requirments and avoid 'beekeepers back' you have plenty of time left in your beekeeping journey.

As for varroa ... well, I'm a non-treater and my bees are fine and have been for nearly 12 seasons - they are not varroa free - no colonies, if there are varroa present in the area, will ever be - but TF is not just about leaving the bees to their own devices and it's not a path I would recommend for a new beekeeper with a couple of hives. If your bees are that infested they are one of those colonies which may be prone to infestation - some are, some aren't. The local beekeeping population and the colonies within your bees foraging area also contribute to varroa levels so ... treat them if they need it and OA is about the most effective, least invasive, treatment there is.

Flow hives ? Glad they are working for you, they are an acquired taste I'm afraid and the people I know that originally invested in them have either given up beekeeping or have converted to more traditional beekeeping methods. If it works for you then great ... let us know how you get on with your crop and how you find your flow hives in general. There's a few on here that will be interested as well as a few that may be less accepting - tread your own path, beekeeping is a continual round of decision making - at least with this forum you have a sounding board when you are a little unsure ... always lots of people around and it's rare not to get a reply of some sort in minutes.

 

[BeeAdmin]

Hello and welcome. Enjoy the forums and your beekeeping.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

And according to my former Chief Engineer - usually a bigger hammer is the answer

Obviously a man of discernment but a gas axe comes in pretty handy too.

 

[Micklemus81]

Hello. You are welcome Flow Hives and all. There are a few members here who do keep them.
Your flow super is simply a novel way of harvesting the honey. The beekeeping is still the same, so stick around. This is the best beekeeping forum on the planet and is a treasure trove of information. Post your questions in the beginners section and the only silly question is the one you didn't post and went ahead and made a mistake.
To answer both your penultimate and ultimate questions. NO

Do post your modifications

Thank you for the reply ,it's very much appreciated. Incidentally I must have done a few things right by keeping an open mind as I usually do (never say never) because I gave myself a pat on the back while I was looking at 40Lbs of honey from this Flow hive just today. It's a good thing I don't work now because it took all day but as Frederick Dunn (you tube ) says he never gets tired of watching honey flow into jars...... This is just one small part of beekeeping but I never hardly shirk a challenge.

I did make one mistake that I see more (much More) experienced bee keepers make with this newfangled Flow hive & that is next time ( if there is one?) I must be more patient & make sure ( as far as possible that all the cells are capped right down to the last of the bottom row. Honey may drip out of those uncapped cells and into the box below, because the honey 'backs up' even runny honey with a fan heater under it and a hot day to boot.
I must get my act together.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thank you for the reply ,it's very much appreciated. Incidentally I must have done a few things right by keeping an open mind as I usually do (never say never) because I gave myself a pat on the back while I was looking at 40Lbs of honey from this Flow hive just today. It's a good thing I don't work now because it took all day but as Frederick Dunn (you tube ) says he never gets tired of watching honey flow into jars...... This is just one small part of beekeeping but I never hardly shirk a challenge.

I did make one mistake that I see more (much More) experienced bee keepers make with this newfangled Flow hive & that is next time ( if there is one?) I must be more patient & make sure ( as far as possible that all the cells are capped right down to the last of the bottom row. Honey may drip out of those uncapped cells and into the box below, because the honey 'backs up' even runny honey with a fan heater under it and a hot day to boot.
I must get my act together.

Have you joined the flow hive forum? They are expert at this sort of thing. Just don’t tell them you have a fake one.

 

[Micklemus81]

Have you joined the flow hive forum? They are expert at this sort of thing. Just don’t tell them you have a fake one.

 

[Micklemus81]

Thanks for the reply.... It's nice to know there is someone like me who is helpful and has a wry sense of humour? Funny enough I contacted Cedar in Oz to say what a good idea he came up with. I have put plastic hollow board which bends along the ridge easily and then affixes great with 4 roof fixings that cap to be watertight. There's also an air gap to give a bit of an insulating effect & the overhang all round serves well as a bit of shade to the south facing side & also gives the hive water protection better than a small overhang.
I noticed on these bungalows at Wollaton Park that the stucco has lasted since 1927 with their 14" soffits.
Good teaching at Nottingham tech for the building trade 1956.... the old school is still firmly in my memory at 81. Our love of honey ( me more than the wife) suggests I should have got a beehive yonks ago. 350 metres from thousands of different trees all flowering is a bees paradise here.
Thank you fort the advice i look forward to seeing that particular special section. It seems strange to me that accurate advice is often thin on the ground in the world but than god for You Tube. More educational than most tellies!

 

[pargyle]

. It seems strange to me that accurate advice is often thin on the ground in the world but than god for You Tube. More educational than most tellies!

As long as you can separate the rubbish from the fact .... Youtube is full of people who produce beekeeping videos that have some very strange and (at times) downright dangerous ideas. You need to be careful about who you listen to on that channel ...

 

[Micklemus81]

Thank you... It is definitely a fact & you are absolutely right in your findings.
I like Frerick Dunn who has good credentials and is a master B keeper and also has brilliant photography acclaim. He can be quite direct let's say if he finds a comment not to his liking. His ways are technical but not 'pushy'. Harris Joubert is a hard working professional who has loads of hives and is sensible.....and is a long time experimenter with Ox A + glyc strips and recognises, on the channel Randy Oliver ( a meticulous biologist) who has a myriad of big commercial subscribers. Nothing passes his sharp scientific mind but much of his research is beyond me and most others but basically his research findings and publications are sound in every respect.
I saw a detrimental comment by some idiot which said he is better at producing graphs than beekeeping which is farthest from the truth that can possibly bee. His two sons are Profs and have over 1 thousand hives.
Often is the case that if a person has the best experience someone takes a shot when that person puts his head above the trench.
It brings to mind the saying =that it should never be allowed that those who criticise do not possess a fraction of the expertise, experience, knowhow and knowledge, of those who they criticise.

 

[Amari]

. Is oxalic acid classed as a chemical, or ,is it not?

Welcome Micklemus. You and I are the same age but I'm 50 beekeeping years ahead!
Never too late to start.......
I think I'm right in saying that OA is regarded as organic because it occurs nature - eg in rhubarb, and as part of the chain of biochemical events in animals. Too much can result in kidney stones. However I suspect that the OA we purchase is synthesised so it depends what you mean by 'chemical'!

 

[Wilco]

Welcome Micklemus. You and I are the same age but I'm 50 beekeeping years ahead!
Never too late to start.......
I think I'm right in saying that OA is regarded as organic because it occurs nature - eg in rhubarb, and as part of the chain of biochemical events in animals. Too much can result in kidney stones. However I suspect that the OA we purchase is synthesised so it depends what you mean by 'chemical'!

Are you sure? By that logic, penicillin is organic.

 

[Micklemus81]

Thank you so much for the reply. I was an engineer and had to make things work or else I didn't get paid & that is a big incentive in the first instance! I still love making things and luckily am still active. Sometimes I don't feel right but what can you do at 81. It was when I got rid of gallstones completely I celebrated & got a beehive & decided to treat myself after the brush with the grim reaper!
It is such a controversial subject but I feel it should not be re the oxalic acid or rather how it is administered....... I would ask what is the 'sin' of administering oxalic acid onto bees rather than spray it on them?
The professional beekeeper who sold me these genuinely quiet bees is a very amiable guy 12 miles away from Wollaton Park Nottingham. He says 'you' & that means everybody ,I assume' are not allowed to make any treatment up 'themselves...... but I said well don't you meaning everyone make the oxalic acid spray up with the sugar water? He said yes but it must be Apibioxal...... Ah I said so although a chemist said to me oxalic acid at a certain purity is wood bleach and basically we call it oxalic acid..... I personally suspect most things in life are 'guided' by the monetary value.
That is why a very nice guy says the under the carpet efficiency of oxalic acid is because there is 'no money in it' for the manufacturers......
Isn't there a paper sheet impregnated in the UK that can only be administered with no bees in the hive>? Faintly ridiculous.
The covid vaccine was soon developed and passed as safe with not much testing I see by the cleaver researchers. One has to think hard & come up with something when the need arises?

 

[Micklemus81]

Although the research started in Argentina re the oxalic acid and food grade glycerine adsorbent 'strips' impregnated with that solution does not seem to be heralded by a fanfare of trumpets it should have already have happened.
How come such a no no in the application of a similar chemical substance that is sprayed directly onto bees is thought of as detrimental in other respects?
The world of beekeeping may well look to the Biologist Randy Oliver's research into perfecting his extended release idea that seems to be more efficient noted in his meticulous data better than all the other methods of administering oxalic acid onto mites in terms of killing of mites.
Excellent it seems is the findings to kill varroa with the well proven oxalic acid. Is this the silver bullet that beekeepers need to eradicate that vile parasite?