Current trends in mite treatment

[user 20297]

My intention is not to start another debate about whether or not we should or need to treat our bees; nor do I think it's worthwhile to debate which treatment is actually the best. But I have some questions about treatment.

Last year I didn't treat for varroa and the bees didn't seem any the worse for that. This year I've been persuaded that treating them might be the wiser move. But now I'm getting some mixed messages about how to approach treatments and what chemicals to use.

One of the confusions is regarding the importance of knowing each colony's mite load before treating. This is contradicted by the fact that apparently, all colonies have mites and that if you treat one of your colonies you also need to treat the others in order to avoid re-infestation. So what's the point of assessing them first? Shouldn't we just treat?

The choice of mite treatments seems reasonably straightforward, as a shadow of one type or another hangs over most of the chemicals. So I've found it easy to choose the one which best suits me. But I have come full circle when I read one of the most knowledgeable and experienced (did I also say "respected"? ) contributors here referring to the product as "foul". I'm taken back to my original thoughts about good reasons for not treating and find my head banging on the wall again.

Are we heading towards a situation where the consensus is going to be that we should use oxalic acid vaping and that method alone?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Shouldn't we just treat?

Which is what I do

Are we heading towards a situation where the consensus is going to be that we should use oxalic acid vaping and that method alone?

Fast and effective and it won’t be long before we are doing it with supers on

 

[Markthebuilder]

I treated my first year then I didn’t the next and last year I treated in winter after spotting 2 mites on the back of bee.
I have also bought vhs queens .
I intended to do a sugar shake to check mite load but didn’t get it done and have started treatment second vape tomorrow but yesterday there was only 1 mite on the board,

I think it may be possible for bees to survive quite happily with a small might load particularly if they are vhs.
The problem comes that without treatment the load will increase over anything the bees can withstand how long this take will depend on location and type of bee.
Some may argue that any load is unacceptable.
How many flees/lice are you prepared for your dog car child to have.
Problem with pesticides is lazy people love me me may not use them correctly and hence cause resistance.

 

[StephenT]

Apivar now and OA trickle in December. Apivar is effective and easy to apply and can’t see why it is ‘foul’. There is anecdotal ’evidence’ of isolated resistance but I haven’t seen anything scientific. Plan to graduate to OA vapourisation now I have more experience..

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Apivar is effective and easy to apply and can’t see why it is ‘foul’.

Chronic Toxicity

Amitraz was found to have endocrine disrupting effects and that cause reproductive and developmental toxicity. As a α2-adrenergic agonist, amitraz attaches to presynaptic α2-adrenergic receptors in the hypothalamus and adversely impacts the reproductive system of mammals and inhibits the secretion of noradrenaline and reduces the secretion of gonadotropin releasing hormone (Altobelli et al., 2001). Some in vivo and in vitro studies have confirmed that amitraz is a fertility poison (Young et al., 2005).

Toxicity and wax residues

The good news first. Amitraz does not accumulate in wax to any significant extent. It is not wax-soluble. This is in contrast to Apistan which is found as a contaminant in most commercially-available beeswax foundation.

And now the bad news. Beekeepers also have alpha-adrenoreceptors and octopamine receptors. So do dogs and fish and bees. Although amitraz has increased specificity for the receptors in mites and ticks, it can also interact with the receptors in other organisms. Consequently, amitraz can be toxic. In fact, if you ingest enough it can be very toxic. Symptoms of amitraz intoxication include CNS depression, respiratory failure, miosis, hypothermia, hyperglycemia, loss of consciousness, vomiting and bradycardia.

And it can kill you.

 

[StephenT]

The first study is on direct application to mammals (with a bit of frog thrown in) and the second part of your post from The Apiarist says that it is not wax soluble but don’t ingest it.

 

[drdrday]

Last year I didn't treat for varroa and the bees didn't seem any the worse for that.

The danger is that without treating, or assessing mite levels you won't know until it's too late to do anything about it. Mite levels can increase exponentially, and we all have a much greater understanding of exponentiality now thanks to Covid.

So what's the point of assessing them first? Shouldn't we just treat?

Assessing levels first gives you an idea of whether the treatment you've selected and used has actually done anything to the mite load. If mites develop resistance to a particular treatment, or if there was a problem with the application in some way, having an idea of mite numbers before and after treatment will demonstrate this to you.

As to which treatment to use, there is a wide variety and you will find proponents of all of them. Whichever you choose will be a personal choice based on your own circumstances.

 

[hemo]

My mite counts appeared to be low during the year if I was to believe the sugar rolls carried out so one could have easily made the decision to chance it and not treat, though with OA vape it is relatively easy and simple to administer externally and in most cases a quite good one.
Mostly with the 9 colonies I have only seen after the first round of vapes < 25 mites average between 8 colonies , 1 though gave a larger drop of some < 300 mites so treatment was worth while (only the follow up vapes will tell).
It is possible this one colony with a high count may be robbing or come in contact with varroa riddle bees ( I am aware of one non treater nearby so always a possibility of a mite explosion).

It is said if infestation is <3% no treatment is needed but one needs to be sure and a sugar roll is only an indication.
One could try and estimate bee numbers per colony at this time of year but a lottery really, how can one truly estimate numbers ? I don't think you can, a wild guess maybe.
If you went with a modest 40k say for a BS Nat deep then you could be wildly out, 3% would equate to a total drop or 1200 mites. For a lot of colonies this figure may be far above what is actually seen but can you take that risk with their health.
Only with hind sight one could say I didn't need to bother but for the production of the winter bees to come then with a non intrusive treatment they will be healthier and less susceptible to viruses.

 

[hemo]

Which is what I do



Fast and effective and it won’t be long before we are doing it with supers on

Yes hopefully we and the rest of the world will follow the yanks and the powers that be will see that the data and research shows little/nothing to be concerned about.
There would be a lot of beeks then playing catch up with those of us who are already happy with vaping bees with an unobtrusive and soft option.

I know the LBKA are pretty much dead against OA as they spread the fear factor of inhaling fumes and the application process. As I have tried to show and explain in the past, it is simply a case of having a simple and easy process/regime of how to treat.
With the vape pan I never need to don a mask, I simply have a easy routine for my pan type applicators or the Gasvap.
1. All my floors are UFE design.
2. The diy pan board is inserted with loaded pan and a foam strip at the rear , the front edge of the board sits tight against the front UFE timber that forms the entrance.
3. I set my phone timer to approx, 3.30 mins.
4. I connect my small 12v lion battery a meter up wind and walk away.
5. Alarm sounds I remove the battery.

In between 4 & 5 I prep the next colony with pan #2 and or use the Gas vap and mask on a third colony.

All my vape equipment fits in to an old Blue Sainsburys online shopping basket from about 15 years ago when they initially provided them for unloading at the door.
I often for vaping only visit my apiaries (all within 6 miles) via my bicycle so simply strap the box on the rear carrier and put a veil in a pannier.

My vape stuff in the box contains 2 x pan boards for UFE floors ( all floors uniform and same size0 & 1 nuc pan board.
2 x Pans.
1x Gasvap kit.
1 x Gas torch.
2 x 12v lion or lipo battery.
OA treatment.
1 x gas refill.
1 x water spray
1x mask.
2 x I ltr tubs in case of rain to house the batteries.

Everything kept tidy in one place and easy to find.
If one item fails always have the back up of the other to use.
My preferred method is the pan under the floor over the Gasvap but it does get used.

 

[Swarm]

It sounds wonderfully simple and then it decides to pour with rain.

 

[pargyle]

It sounds wonderfully simple and then it decides to pour with rain.

Well ... there's always someone ready to rain on the parade ....

 

[pargyle]

Yes hopefully we and the rest of the world will follow the yanks and the powers that be will see that the data and research shows little/nothing to be concerned about.
There would be a lot of beeks then playing catch up with those of us who are already happy with vaping bees with an unobtrusive and soft option.

I know the LBKA are pretty much dead against OA as they spread the fear factor of inhaling fumes and the application process. As I have tried to show and explain in the past, it is simply a case of having a simple and easy process/regime of how to treat.
With the vape pan I never need to don a mask, I simply have a easy routine for my pan type applicators or the Gasvap.
1. All my floors are UFE design.
2. The diy pan board is inserted with loaded pan and a foam strip at the rear , the front edge of the board sits tight against the front UFE timber that forms the entrance.
3. I set my phone timer to approx, 3.30 mins.
4. I connect my small 12v lion battery a meter up wind and walk away.
5. Alarm sounds I remove the battery.

In between 4 & 5 I prep the next colony with pan #2 and or use the Gas vap and mask on a third colony.

All my vape equipment fits in to an old Blue Sainsburys online shopping basket from about 15 years ago when they initially provided them for unloading at the door.
I often for vaping only visit my apiaries (all within 6 miles) via my bicycle so simply strap the box on the rear carrier and put a veil in a pannier.

My vape stuff in the box contains 2 x pan boards for UFE floors ( all floors uniform and same size0 & 1 nuc pan board.
2 x Pans.
1x Gasvap kit.
1 x Gas torch.
2 x 12v lion or lipo battery.
OA treatment.
1 x gas refill.
1 x water spray
1x mask.
2 x I ltr tubs in case of rain to house the batteries.

Everything kept tidy in one place and easy to find.
If one item fails always have the back up of the other to use.
My preferred method is the pan under the floor over the Gasvap but it does get used.

Brilliant - I wish I was that organised ... fortunately, my apiary is in the garden so my failings in organisational ability only result in delays and a little shoe leather !

 

[Swarm]

Aye, it had to be said because I've been the one struggling to keep everything dry and stop it blowing away. Someone to hold a big unbrella helps ... a bit.

Well ... there's always someone ready to rain on the parade ....

 

[Erichalfbee]

I know the LBKA are pretty much dead against OA as they spread the fear factor of inhaling fumes and the application process.

Proper PPE is not rocket science.

 

[Ash1962]

Which is what I do



Fast and effective and it won’t be long before we are doing it with supers on

I don’t treat only with essential oils a combination of various oils including Thyme .99

My intention is not to start another debate about whether or not we should or need to treat our bees; nor do I think it's worthwhile to debate which treatment is actually the best. But I have some questions about treatment.

Last year I didn't treat for varroa and the bees didn't seem any the worse for that. This year I've been persuaded that treating them might be the wiser move. But now I'm getting some mixed messages about how to approach treatments and what chemicals to use.

One of the confusions is regarding the importance of knowing each colony's mite load before treating. This is contradicted by the fact that apparently, all colonies have mites and that if you treat one of your colonies you also need to treat the others in order to avoid re-infestation. So what's the point of assessing them first? Shouldn't we just treat?

The choice of mite treatments seems reasonably straightforward, as a shadow of one type or another hangs over most of the chemicals. So I've found it easy to choose the one which best suits me. But I have come full circle when I read one of the most knowledgeable and experienced (did I also say "respected"? ) contributors here referring to the product as "foul". I'm taken back to my original thoughts about good reasons for not treating and find my head banging on the wall again.

Are we heading towards a situation where the consensus is going to be that we should use oxalic acid vaping and that method alone?

I don’t treat only with a combination of essential oils...Marjoram /Thyme/Clove.....Biggest Mite drop is with Garlic oil ..Screen boards placed in with cotton pads impregnated with above...

 

[madasafish]

I never presumed to know more than more experienced beekeepers by using non standard unapproved varroa treatments as a beginner.

I don't advise it.
Especially for beginners.
Experiment when you know your own limitations and the impacts of your experiments. And the impact on any honey stores.
Garlic flavoured honey may be acceptable to a few I suppose.

 

[bingevader]

Proper PPE is not rocket science.

Maybe not, but for me, it's not beekeeping/having either.

There would be a lot of beeks then playing catch up with those of us who are already happy with vaping bees with an unobtrusive and soft option.

Um, no. I will stick to the Apiguard thanks.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I don’t treat only with essential oils a combination of various oils including Thyme .99

I don’t treat only with a combination of essential oils...Marjoram /Thyme/Clove.....Biggest Mite drop is with Garlic oil ..Screen boards placed in with cotton pads impregnated with above...

Snakeoil then. you might as well just hang a magic crystal over the hive

 

[user 20297]

Snakeoil then. you might as well just hang a magic crystal over the hive

..according to biodynamic beekeeping, that would actually work. ....well possibly....

 

[BigAshW]

I went with apiguard on all my full colonies despite the bbka fella saying it would stop my queen's laying and I shouldn't use it in autumn.

All nucs got apistan as I don't have ekes for them and the strips are convenient.

Plan to OA Vape during the winter so have a gas vap just need to get the ppe.