Delayed winter treatment ?

[Plenty of honey]

I am a total fan of vaporising oxalic acid. works brilliantly for me, great mite control been treating for the last 3 years. I have AMM in majority of my stock.
My buddy however, is convinced that his treatment of his 200 plus colonies with Amitraz, is still better than VOA, as he still thinks that is can "etch" and damage the surface of the bees outer body armour and leave them open to infection, or similar effects. I can see his arguement, but he requeens every second year, if not every year with most colonies. I don't see his worry!! if shortening the queens life due to acid damage , does this really pose a problem with VOA treatment!
I think the overall treatment is so good, that it far out weights the negative effects of this treatment (if there are any due to damage ), especially if you are able to regularly requeen.
We've all discussed this in other threads but does anyone really have any hard evidence of possible damage to bees and queens by VOA??

You are also not putting miticides in your hives and sticking with a soft treatment that actually works!! I am actually "VOA ing" 6 of his hives he treated this summer, to compare the results!! i hope i can convince him its the way to go!!

 

[Thymallus]

Why not recycledchip fat in this touchy feely save the planet days?

If we are going really green we should also be mentioning Hydrogen and ethanol fuels! I particularly like the latter, preferably when not in car fuel state

 

[Thymallus]

I am actually "VOA ing" 6 of his hives he treated this summer, to compare the results!! i hope i can convince him its the way to go!!

Are you going to try some amitraz on your own hives as another comparison?
It will be interesting to hear what results you get.
I've no doubt both treatments work effectively. In some cases though it's a matter of the time and effort involved, plus the costing.

 

[pargyle]

Only treat when they need treating, breed from those that need less treatments. Have tried queens from other places, but not found any that can survive completely treatment free here yet.

That's really good advice Pete ... but there's hope that one day ?

 

[Quis Custodiet]

Depends on the amount of Michelin Stars the establishment has...

Our local Chippie sells Rubber Battered ( literally !) Mullett masquerading as Cod !!

Rubber is an expensive commodity too, these days!

 

[Millet]

There is doubt as to whether it gets ingested directly by the mites or whether it is the spikey crystals that penetrate the mites bodies. Some research has shown that killed mites have traces of OA in their bodies .. so it gets in to them somehow.

I watched a cracking lecture yesterday on Varroa thanks to a fellow member.

I don't know if its the same with the Oxcalic Acid but what i could gather from the lecture was the varroa mites body is like a sponge which helps it absorb the smell from bees in a new colony that it has arrived in pretty quickly.
During one experiment they washed a dead Varroa mite clean of any bee smells they then placed it on a bee larvae, even though the mite was dead it still absorbed a considerable amount of bee odour.

 

[Plenty of honey]

Are you going to try some amitraz on your own hives as another comparison?
It will be interesting to hear what results you get.
I've no doubt both treatments work effectively. In some cases though it's a matter of the time and effort involved, plus the costing.

Yes i agree its a very good idea!! But...to be really effective the best time for treatment in the colonie as you know, is late summer, post harvest, when outside temperatures are higher. I doubt the treatment would be distributed through evaporation that well through the colonie.
I personally find that Amitraze dosent work well here.
I have been following my beekeeping teachers method for many years of treating with the stuff.
He applied 10 drops , (with a dropper), of amitraze "TACTIC" solution on the middle of each frame. Once a week, over 3 successive weeks, so three treatments. When i saw his mite drop in successive weeks, i know it didn't work well. He pulled out the under tray and we counted 10 mites!!! Well i have the same bees as him and i get a mite drop of over 100 or more, sometimes much more.
I am convivced that amitraze does not work well here. It could be the way he applies it, but he's pretty up on his methods. I just don't think he realised how many mites his hives contain and perhaps how good a job his AMM of coping with Varroa. I got the same results when i treated with Amitraze some 6 years ago and was staggered at how much more effective VOA seems to be

Hive makers Wise words before Totally agree with this!!

"Only treat when they need treating, breed from those that need less treatments. Have tried queens from other places, but not found any that can survive completely treatment free here yet."

 

[Finman]

That's really good advice Pete ... but there's hope that one day ?

Amen.

What beekeepers need always is hope, when things does not go like they should go.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Only treat when they need treating, breed from those that need less treatments. Have tried queens from other places, but not found any that can survive completely treatment free here yet.

Yes, that's it isn't it.
Meanwhile we shouldn't be too disturbed to let the odd swarm go and maybe morph in the future into something more resistant in the wild.

 

[Thymallus]

I personally find that Amitraze dosent work well here.
I have been following my beekeeping teachers method for many years of treating with the stuff.
He applied 10 drops , (with a dropper), of amitraze "TACTIC" solution on the middle of each frame.

I've never tried dropping liquid on them, I've used the amitraz strips (apivar) and find them extremely effective although it takes a while for it's effect to kick in. Recommended usage is 3 years apivar and then switch back to Bayvarol strips (or the like) for 3 years in rotation, with an OA treatment around Xmas time.

 

[Finman]

.
Amitraze resistancy has been found in USA almost 20 y ago.

.

 

[Thymallus]

.
Amitraze resistancy has been found in USA almost 20 y ago.

.

That's why you go in 3 year cycles. Resistance genes are "expensive" and lost (mainly recessive) when no selection pressure is put on the varroa to retain them. Or shall we say, after 3 years of non treatment with bayvarol the resistance is confined to only a very small percentage of the varroa population ....knock those guys off with OA later....

 

[fatshark]

.
Amitraze resistancy has been found in USA almost 20 y ago.

Scientific evidence of Amtraz (Apivar etc) resistance, as opposed to anecdotal evidence, is very limited. There's a nice overview here (2013).

 

[Finman]

Scientific evidence of Amtraz (Apivar etc) resistance, as opposed to anecdotal evidence, is very limited. There's a nice overview here (2013).

What ever. In USA the compared 3 different treatment stuff and Amitratz efficacy was 70%. IT was bublished 1999.

No one recommends it nowadays.

Your bees,not my problem.

.

 

[Hivemaker.]

No one recommends it nowadays.

Yes they do, Apivar, Biowar 500, and lots of people use it with good results.

 

[Finman]

Yes they do, Apivar, Biowar 500, and lots of people use it with good results.

Good!

.

 

[fatshark]

Your bees,not my problem.

Not my bees or my problem. I've looked hard for evidence of Amtraz resistance and not found it, that's all. Don't use the stuff myself.

 

[Finman]

Not my bees or my problem. I've looked hard for evidence of Amtraz resistance and not found it, that's all. Don't use the stuff myself.

I do not mind. I will not use it.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Doing it this way won't matter if there is brood or not. My planned date is 18th, which is my kids last day at school, 23rd when they go to their mum's for holiday, and 28th whilst I've no other commitments.

I found this entirely reasonable and the holier-than-thou sniping that followed the usual dose of unpleasantness that drives people, including me, away. This is vaping, not queen-rearing, and this is going to do a lot more good than sloshing on the first cold day, in this "winter". Hope it went to plan, @Hawklord.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

This is vaping, not queen-rearing

Same applies as for trickling - better to leave for a cold spell as less chance of a lot of brood in there.

And by the way - the OP's question was about trickling, not vaping.