Current trends in mite treatment

[Worker bee]

By the way when I say this month they get three vapes usually four days apart one single vape in December or January and a full 3 vapes later on. Then I'll put my supers on. That's usually it

 

[Ed the Beek]

I treated my first year then I didn’t the next and last year I treated in winter after spotting 2 mites on the back of bee.
I have also bought vhs queens .
I intended to do a sugar shake to check mite load but didn’t get it done and have started treatment second vape tomorrow but yesterday there was only 1 mite on the board,

I think it may be possible for bees to survive quite happily with a small might load particularly if they are vhs.
The problem comes that without treatment the load will increase over anything the bees can withstand how long this take will depend on location and type of bee.
Some may argue that any load is unacceptable.
How many flees/lice are you prepared for your dog car child to have.
Problem with pesticides is lazy people love me me may not use them correctly and hence cause resistance.

If you had a VHS Queen, why would the mite load increase, is that not the purpose of the VHS mechanism, to have the bees interrupt the mite breeding cycles and lower the load to manageable levels.

 

[Markthebuilder]

If you had a VHS Queen, why would the mite load increase, is that not the purpose of the VHS mechanism, to have the bees interrupt the mite breeding cycles and lower the load to manageable levels.

my error for not qualyifiying that not treating for mites in non vhs colony’s is likely to lead to an increase in mite load etc
Also being Vsh doesn’t mean no mites so the ones that are there can still be carried and spread to other colonies and attack your bees. I don’t think breeders are saying that if you have a vsh queen you can dispense with mite treatment altogether,

Currently the number of dead mites on the inspection board of my vsh queen could be a good indication that haveing vsh queens really is worth while. The other queen wasn’t sold as vsh but from a breeding program that the breeder hopes to call vsh next year. However the numbers to me based on what I have read do seam v low.

 

[BernardBlack]

I treated my first year then I didn’t the next and last year I treated in winter after spotting 2 mites on the back of bee.
I have also bought vhs queens .
I intended to do a sugar shake to check mite load but didn’t get it done and have started treatment second vape tomorrow but yesterday there was only 1 mite on the board,

I think it may be possible for bees to survive quite happily with a small might load particularly if they are vhs.
The problem comes that without treatment the load will increase over anything the bees can withstand how long this take will depend on location and type of bee.
Some may argue that any load is unacceptable.
How many flees/lice are you prepared for your dog car child to have.
Problem with pesticides is lazy people love me me may not use them correctly and hence cause resistance.

Would that be deemed enough to treat?

 

[BernardBlack]

Just on the issue of sugar roll - any time I’ve done it, I rarely ever find any varroa.

 

[Markthebuilder]

Apparently if after doing an alcohol wash you have 2 mites per 100 bees then yes you should treat.

From the same article……..

Varroa are typically concentrated in the brood nest of the honey bee colony and present in the brood cells. In severe infestations varroa mites may be observed on the surface of worker bees

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/food/inspection/bees/varroa-sampling.htm

 

[Ed the Beek]

my error for not qualyifiying that not treating for mites in non vhs colony’s is likely to lead to an increase in mite load etc
Also being Vsh doesn’t mean no mites so the ones that are there can still be carried and spread to other colonies and attack your bees. I don’t think breeders are saying that if you have a vsh queen you can dispense with mite treatment altogether,

Currently the number of dead mites on the inspection board of my vsh queen could be a good indication that haveing vsh queens really is worth while. The other queen wasn’t sold as vsh but from a breeding program that the breeder hopes to call vsh next year. However the numbers to me based on what I have read do seam v low.

I don’t understand the point of having a VSH queen and still treating, you might as well have a non VSH queen. If you treat a VSH queen she will become a non VSH queen, it’s the mite pressure that causes the behaviour change.

 

[Markthebuilder]

I don’t understand the point of having a VSH queen and still treating, you might as well have a non VSH queen. If you treat a VSH queen she will become a non VSH queen, it’s the mite pressure that causes the behaviour change.

My understanding from reading is that it is a gene that create this activity. So bees either have it or they don’t.
When tested bees that clear 70% pupi affected with mites can be called vsh so that’s still 30% that can bread and build up. Whilst it’s possible to get 100% vsh queens by carful selection and breading ie when tested they removed 100% of infected pupi .however if the 100% queen is mated with Zero % mated drone the % of vsh drops . some sellers offer queens at say 85% vsh
+ the vsh is only a measure of infected pupi removed it doesn’t measure adult bees carrying the mite either not removed at pupi stage or picked up when forageing.

my view is that the British and European bee has been around for thousands of years but the mite only turned up in the last 20-40 years so we can help our bees by wiping out varrora, if my bees kill 85% of the mites in the pupi and I can get 90% of the mites on the workers etc with vape that has to be good for the bees.
I’m sure there are plenty of beks that will supply queens for free or very low cost to friends or members of a club etc but This year I payed £46 for queens with the vsh gene one of which was graded as 85% the other line hasn’t yet been graded or at least not advertised as such.
Hopeful i will see how they compare next year-with each other and with my home raised queen not scientific and different breads but unless someone who tells me they know tells me I shouldn’t treat, I intend to keep treating
See wiki
Cross-breedingEdit
Bees bred to have high levels of VSH can keep mite populations below thresholds recommended for varroa treatment including miticides.[7] Queens from such VSH breeding sources can be allowed to mate freely with non-VSH drones, and the resulting hybridcolonies from these outcrosses will retain lower and variable but generally still useful resistance to V. destructor while retaining desirable beekeepingtraits such as honey production.[8]

 

[Levitt53]

If your bees didn't seems worse for the fact that you didn't treat them last year then why not try that again. I don't treat my bees and they are fine. I do wish more people would try it and it could become more of a trend. BTW I don't require any abuse for this - we all bee keep in our own way and this works for me

 

[madasafish]

If your bees didn't seems worse for the fact that you didn't treat them last year then why not try that again. I don't treat my bees and they are fine. I do wish more people would try it and it could become more of a trend. BTW I don't require any abuse for this - we all bee keep in our own way and this works for me

What are your honey yields?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

What are your honey yields?

probably in the avatar

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If your bees didn't seems worse for the fact that you didn't treat them last year then why not try that again.

..... until they do look worse

 

[user 819]

If your bees didn't seems worse for the fact that you didn't treat them last year then why not try that again. I don't treat my bees and they are fine. I do wish more people would try it and it could become more of a trend. BTW I don't require any abuse for this - we all bee keep in our own way and this works for me

The trend for most may well be more losses by spring, It is unwise for anyone esp new beeks to do so without monitoring regularly mite loads and understanding results seen.

I did think about not treating this year due to very low mite counts from monitoring but one colony is still dropping sizeable mite counts every 2 -3 days of about 250, all had a fourth vape today and likely the last bar one colony.

 

[Markthebuilder]

If your bees didn't seems worse for the fact that you didn't treat them last year then why not try that again. I don't treat my bees and they are fine. I do wish more people would try it and it could become more of a trend. BTW I don't require any abuse for this - we all bee keep in our own way and this works for me

You will note that I said “ the next year I didn’t, then I saw 2 mites on the back of a bee so I started to treat again”.
I have no problem with people not treating per say.
I think they should monitor the mite load and consider what impact this might have on other beeks if it becomes high.
European breeds of Bees have evolved etc etc but without mites
The vhs is a naturally occurring trate due to specific gens so some may be lucky and already have a strong vhs trate within their colony.
I think non treaters should consider useing vhs queens the next time they or their bees decide to requeen
In so doing we would be helping along the natural evolution of bees. Ie those that can handle a mite load survive those that can’t die out.
In the meantime most will treat because it is reassuring to do so and the evidence of what happens to a colony off bees that can’t tolerate a high mite load is overwhelming

 

[Levitt53]

What are your honey yields?

5 supers from one and 4 from another. Most of my others were split so have left the honey to them. The picture is a rather amateur marketing shot.

 

[madasafish]

5 supers from one and 4 from another. Most of my others were split so have left the honey to them. The picture is a rather amateur marketing shot.

So from 7 hives you got 9 supers - say at 25lbs per super = 225lbs for 7 hives or 32lbs per hive.
Thanks for your reply. It rather confirms my view.
(I have publicly stated my average for this year was c 50lbs, same as last year but based in rather less favourable climate I suspect)

 

[bingevader]

Thanks for your reply. It rather confirms my view.

That you can't add up?!
5+4=9 from 2 hives. The rest he split and didn't take any honey.

 

[bingevader]

If you treat a VSH queen she will become a non VSH queen.

Is that even possible?!!
If VSH has been bred as a genetic trait, I don't think she can just forget it, or not pass on the genes to her offspring, can she?!

 

[Ed the Beek]

My understanding from reading is that it is a gene that create this activity. So bees either have it or they don’t.
When tested bees that clear 70% pupi affected with mites can be called vsh so that’s still 30% that can bread and build up. Whilst it’s possible to get 100% vsh queens by carful selection and breading ie when tested they removed 100% of infected pupi .however if the 100% queen is mated with Zero % mated drone the % of vsh drops . some sellers offer queens at say 85% vsh
+ the vsh is only a measure of infected pupi removed it doesn’t measure adult bees carrying the mite either not removed at pupi stage or picked up when forageing.

my view is that the British and European bee has been around for thousands of years but the mite only turned up in the last 20-40 years so we can help our bees by wiping out varrora, if my bees kill 85% of the mites in the pupi and I can get 90% of the mites on the workers etc with vape that has to be good for the bees.
I’m sure there are plenty of beks that will supply queens for free or very low cost to friends or members of a club etc but This year I payed £46 for queens with the vsh gene one of which was graded as 85% the other line hasn’t yet been graded or at least not advertised as such.
Hopeful i will see how they compare next year-with each other and with my home raised queen not scientific and different breads but unless someone who tells me they know tells me I shouldn’t treat, I intend to keep treating
See wiki
Cross-breedingEdit
Bees bred to have high levels of VSH can keep mite populations below thresholds recommended for varroa treatment including miticides.[7] Queens from such VSH breeding sources can be allowed to mate freely with non-VSH drones, and the resulting hybridcolonies from these outcrosses will retain lower and variable but generally still useful resistance to V. destructor while retaining desirable beekeepingtraits such as honey production.[8]

As I understand it the queen has the ability to express genes in response to stresses that the colony comes under. So very quickly the gene expression in her egg changes to meet the new challenge. All bees have the ability to remove larvae when they detect an abnormality the gene expression is to sensitise the new bees to varroa. There is a BBKA pamphlet on this with work done by Salford University. So if you treat a VSH queen and take away the mite pressure she will have no need to express the gene trait in her offspring and you will reverse the colony behaviour.

 

[Murox]

As I understand it the queen has the ability to express genes in response to stresses that the colony comes under. So very quickly the gene expression in her egg changes to meet the new challenge. All bees have the ability to remove larvae when they detect an abnormality the gene expression is to sensitise the new bees to varroa. There is a BBKA pamphlet on this with work done by Salford University. So if you treat a VSH queen and take away the mite pressure she will have no need to express the gene trait in her offspring and you will reverse the colony behaviour.

For those of us who are not members of the english BBKA, can you share a link to this work , and the pamphlet please.