An exchange with ChatGPT this morning

[Beesnaturally]

Cautious hope...some sort of co-existence possible.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09...s-hope-deadly-facial-tumour-disease/102800670

from your link:

"... the wildlife biologist has watched the population decline to less than 40 per cent of what it was, because of the contagious cancer.

He's also watched, stunned, as both tumour and animal have "somehow" evolved at incredible speed to co-exist.

"In the past we have observed genetic adaptations in the devil, which have allowed them to persist despite the deadly cancer", he said.

"Now we have evidence that, through natural selection, the tumour is fine tuning its optimal virulence, a trade-off between transmission rate and disease-induced mortality".

"This means that DFTD is very unlikely to drive the devil to extinction, but it also means the disease will not disappear, it's an evolutionary deal between the two to coexist with each other.""

--
I don't know who put that 'somehow' there or why. Its completely un-necessary, and I'm glad someone has thought to highlight it.

This simple natural selection playing out. A catastrophic decline followed by an arms race that 'seeks' maximisation of the host's health (measured by successful creation of offspring) while maintaining a foothold. The endgame will be the elimination of the virus.

 

[Erichalfbee]

.

 

[Erichalfbee]

"This means that DFTD is very unlikely to drive the devil to extinction, but it also means the disease will not disappear, it's an evolutionary deal between the two to coexist with each other.""

Yes. My question was whether the devils were developing immunity to infection or living with chronic tumours?

 

[Beesnaturally]

Yes. My question was whether the devils were developing immunity to infection or living with chronic tumours?

Both: its a process, not an either/or. They are developing immunity AND living with tumours. As immunity develops further they'll get fewer tumours and/or the tumours will be slower growing. We will call the state when there are no tumours full immunity.

As with bees. Take any population and introduce varroa. Immediate catastrophic decline to a small population that has some immunity. Those 'survivors' that can snap off swarms before perishing start a process in which from among their offspring some can last longer, and be stronger and get two swarms off before succumbing. These swarms are mating with drones from other colonies that are also offspring of the survivors, and have their own paths to (partial) resistance. (Cast that as tolerance if you like).

And so the process continues, the best of each generation mating with other survivors and passing on the heritable genes that confer resistance. Not every time of course, there is plenty of mess still; but the journey to full recovery is under way.

I remember when varroa first struck there was plenty of talk of the futility of trying to let natural selection run its course, on the basis that 'evolution takes thousands of years.'

That was wrong.

Left alone, populations seem to not just recover but regain their former numbers in full after 4-5 years.

--

Nature's way is: overproduction (of offspring) followed by ruthless selection. To say 'overproduction followed by ruthless -winnowing_ make the point much more clearly. In each generation the weaker (less well-fitted) gene-sets tend to be lost; the stronger tend to survive - and the population gene-pool becomes ever-more well-fitted to its environment. To see some colonies dying is not a failure of husbandry: it is the way of nature.

To keep such colonies alive to breed is the very opposite of husbandry.

That is the core of animal and plant husbandry, where the selection of breeding pairs can be controlled.

Where breeding cannot be controlled, to maintain weak stocks is to fail to husband the genes down the generations; to undermine nature without replacing her hand.

Its anti-husbandry.

It perpetuates the very sickness it addresses.

 

[BeeAdmin]

Were the AI exchanges done on a different site and just copied and pasted here?

 

[Beesnaturally]

Were the AI exchanges done on a different site and just copied and pasted here?

Of course.

 

[BeeAdmin]

Thank you for that clarification. AI's are not allowed here, and if we see one (and know it) it will be banned/blocked immediately.

 

[Beesnaturally]

Thank you for that clarification. AI's are not allowed here, and if we see one (and know it) it will be banned/blocked immediately.

I didn't know that. You mean of course text created by AIs. Am I permitted to ask why such text, when clearly marked as to origin, is censored?

Are you intending to block or delete this thread? If so would you let me take some of my own (non AI) text first please?

 

[BeeAdmin]

If it is created by AI, that is the issue. If you create it elsewhere and copy / paste to a post here, there is no problem with AI in that manner.

Since this was an AI topic, I just am using it to make sure all know that actually using AI on the forum is not allowed.

 

[Beesnaturally]

If it is created by AI, that is the issue. If you create it elsewhere and copy / paste to a post here, there is no problem with AI in that manner.

Since this was an AI topic, I just am using it to make sure all know that actually using AI on the forum is not allowed.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'using AI on the forum'. How would one do that?

Is there a rulebook someplace?

 

[Antipodes]

I'm no expert on this, far from it, but we were talking about it last night and I was told about hallucination with these AI things. I was told one needs to be careful with it and check its answers. I was told that if you know your topic well, it is easier to see any hallucinations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucination_(artificial_intelligence)

 

[Erichalfbee]

Is there a rulebook someplace?

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/tos

 

[Beesnaturally]

I'm no expert on this, far from it, but we were talking about it last night and I was told about hallucination with these AI things. I was told one needs to be careful with it and check its answers. I was told that if you know your topic well, it is easier to see any hallucinations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucination_(artificial_intelligence)[/URLUR

They are improving all the time. ChatGPT-4 is I think widely acknowledged to be the best. I play with the free GPT-3.

The advice you got is right - the only way to discover its strengths and weaknesses is to play with it.[/URL]

 

[Erichalfbee]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'using AI on the forum'. How would one do that?

Just look at "who" is online at any time

 

[Beesnaturally]

Just look at "who" is online at any time

I can see 'members: 32, guests: 393'. Is that what you mean? Probably bots trying to nick IDs and personal details. I doubt they are interested in text for large language model databases - social media is a famously lousy source.