Hi, Chris here.

[SWEET]

It doesn't necessarily follow that the queen is herself the issue, temper can be disproportionately affected by the father of one of the subfamilies within the colony.

 

[Swarm]

Far more to temperament than meets the eye, definitely. A four year old queen at one apiary has been a star performer in all aspects until this year and even early this year they were calm and quiet on the combs. Early May and it was like a switch had been thrown and their mood changed completely.

 

[enrico]

I am getting a similar situation locally. I try and explain to them that they need to change their queens for the good of us all but sadly they just say, I prefer to let my bees do their own thing, which generally means I am too scared to go into the hive. I assisted one person in changing a queen but they are as bad as ever now because he ...... Let's them be. I have had to destroy two queens this year because of poor temperament and another is on the edge and will probably go in autumn or spring.

 

[Nannysbees]

Ours are at the bottom of the garden with neighbours either side so it's vital we keep on top of the temperament. Only one of the five colonies is home grown and that was an oversight on our behalf as we introduced a bought queen but we must have missed the cell,£50 down the drain, however she's kept a close eye on

 

[Swampie]

Even if its 'aggresive drones' that are the problem, then surely its a far more probable that you have a single hot hive somewhere near you (possibly wild) than it is the entire county's beekeepers suddenly not encouraging even tempered bees? I understand that you're feeling dissapointed at your loss right now But to extrapolate your situation (a sample of one) to a national emergency, seems extreme.

 

[Chris Hancock]

You assume it's the Queens genetics and not the sperm she is holding that is creating those subgroups of sisters you are seeing that behaviour in (her drones are likely fine from parent(s) genetics). Even if it was the Queen side, not all the traits are passed to drones and whatever is passed needs a matching pair further down the chain. You also assume the drones from these hives are viable, you'll properly find most of them have low sperm counts, die or get eaten. The chances are very small your angry stocks are going to make much difference, certainly not worth worrying about.

What you need to do is isolate these stocks with issues and test the Queens drones, then you'll know if it's the Queen or the sperm she is using from all the drones she mated with (even then it's prob only one drone causing the issue).

Thankyou for your valid points- Normally, I could deal with the feisty few and the enthusiastic young guard bees, but these have been beyond tolerating, and could pose quite a threat to people beyond my apiary, so I cannot take chances. I do understand the half-sisters will not be the same, but there is not much hope of sorting them out. The behaviour was extreme, even for an experienced beekeeper to withstand, and I still have serious fears for our temperaments if these spread.

 

[warsaw_hive]

There is a strong movement towards 'natural' beekeeping in this area

Sounds nice, where are you? Oxfordshire?

 

[drex]

What's natural about keeping bees?

 

[Peterjay]

I am very afraid for the future of our bees and beekeeping. ........... Because I know that any drones from bad-tempered colonies will pass this trait on to any virgin queen they mate with,............

How can you be certain that all drones from a "bad-tempered" colony will carry the exact range of genes that contribute to the appearance that trait within a colony?
Don't you think that exterminating all bees that don't meet with your criteria is likely to affect the frequency of queen bees mating with drones with other, perhaps desirable, genetic traits.
There might be conditions in your locality that are contributing to the temper of the bees; these might include there being more bees than the local forage can sustain.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I am very afraid for the future of our bees and beekeeping. I have been keeping well-natured bees for years, and they have provided stock for our local beekeepers' association. Our colonies send out drones which carry their mother's genes, so if we allow any nasty ttempered queens and drones to continue, we will be in danger of losing our bees in the future. There is a strong movement towards 'natural' beekeeping in this area, and maybe it is this or maybe traditional beekeepers who are not monitoring for temperament, but this year three of my new queens have returned from mating to produce really vicious bees. I don't mind where people keep their bees, but we all have responsibilities to monitor health and temperament. Because I know that any drones from bad-tempered colonies will pass this trait on to any virgin queen they mate with, I am having to destroy colonies, because they are not only stinging me but are stinging people away from their hives. If this goes on, there will be very few manageable bees, and the public may be at serious risk of attack. I hate it, but I know that I am being responsible if I destroy these colonies. Re-queening may be fine, if you can endure stings from the previous queen's stock, but it is essential that the drones are also removed so that they do not go out to mate.
This is a bigger threat than many of the problems we have had to cope with, but I beg you to educate all potential beekeepers of this risk and the need to be ruthless when necessary, for the sake of the future of bees and beekeepers.
Thankyou for reading.
Chris

Re-reading this thread your comment " I have been keeping and teaching beekeeping for years, now," struck me as incompatible with killing colonies, simultaneous with wishing to save the bees. Each to his own I suppose but I can foresee a lot of colonies getting the chop if your message goes out to the general public or even new beekeepers.

 

[drex]

I have only ever killed off one colony. It was only my second year and I was trying out a Warre hive. The bees were really hot, with combs stuck to the sidewall. Did not fancy trying to find the queen in that.
Soon to tackle a really nasty hive at association apiary. Will move the brood boxes aside, leaving supers in place. Fliers which are the nasty ones will all end up in the supers, leaving it easier to find queen in the double BB. I will still kit up well.

 

[fullframe45]

Thats interesting to me as i have one to do in next cpl of days when/if weather is suitable. So do you remove the brood boxes to one side and replace with supers on the hive floor,Then go through the Brood boxes as im on tripple brood.If i have got this right would you leave for a while or just go in straight away on removal. Pordon my ignorance but agressive bees are a first for me. Thank You.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

would you leave for a while or just go in straight away on removal

move the brood boxes with floor, just leave the supers at the original site (with a way for the bees to get in). Go for a cup of tea, then come back to deal with the queen

 

[fullframe45]

Thanks for explaining ,Rain again today but ill give it a go and see what happens. Thank You

 

[Lislarybees]

can it really?

It doesn’t account for every defensive colony but the majority for sure. I don’t understand why you keep defending the movement of non-native bees. In another thread you were giving out to someone for suggesting they’d introduce some Himalayan balsam into their area. Telling them how irresponsible they are. Moving non-native honeybees into an area is the exact same thing. Except the Himalayan balsam isn’t going to turn nasty and sting your neighbours kids.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Moving non-native honeybees into an area is the exact same thing.

no, that's just your deep seated bigotry towards any other bee species apart from the one you think should have preference.

the Himalayan balsam isn’t going to turn nasty and sting your neighbours kids.

Same as you have no evidence to prove this, it's just founded on your prejudice.

 

[Vanterrier]

But to extrapolate your situation (a sample of one) to a national emergency, seems extreme.

Ah but that's once in a row...
K

 

[Lislarybees]

no, that's just your deep seated bigotry towards any other bee species apart from the one you think should have preference.

Same as you have no evidence to prove this, it's just founded on your prejudice.

Im sorry I don’t think you can be considered bigoted for saying that non-native subspecies of honeybee are invasive and shouldn’t be moved around - are you bigoted against Himalayan Balsam?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Stop there. Both of you. @Lislarybees and @jenkinsbrynmair
I don’t want to delete posts wholesale here.
We should be able to keep whatever bees we please as long as they are safe. It’s a hobby for heavens sake.

 

[Hull Bees]

Till a couple of years ago there was an inept beekeeper very near my apiary, now she's gone I think my bees are noticeably calmer but I don't think her colonies were significantly impacting local genetics. In my case I think as she had weak colonies in large hives (double brood, QX and 2-3 Supers *all year*) and constantly left out drawn frames etc my colonies were frequently engaging in robbing behaviour.