Damp rather than cold kills bees

[For want of a better word]

WE have 55 000 hives in Finland, which tell that Derekm's of Fusion's theory has nothing to do with practice.

Our bees over winter in -20C to -30C temperature. Forget all drinking water theories because our bees do not have water what they can drink.




.

Finnie my sweet... is that because the water is so cold that their tongues would stick to it if they licked it... so what about the water that they warm up and drink from condensation within the hive?

Just a thought

Yeghes da

 

[Beefriendly]

Derek outlined a hypothesis based on a limited sample.

I don't disagree with the hypothesis -

Perhaps someone would be so kind as to explain this hypothesis. What the conjecture was and the explanation for it?

 

[Anduril]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/scienceblogs.com/lifelines/2011/07/19/cunning-cuttlefish/amp/
http://americanbeejournal.com/winter-clusters-seen-colors-heat/
Derekm is not the only one.

 

[Nige.Coll]

There are lots of people trying to over complicate things in every aspect of life, why should beekeeping be any different.

 

[madasafish]

There are lots of people trying to over complicate things in every aspect of life, why should beekeeping be any different.

I agree . Keeping insects is simple. Keep them dry, fed and protected in an environment similar to their natural one - and that's it..
Err then there are the diseases, and bad weather and queens dying or going AWOL and swarming and ....

It's so simple any fool can do it - and kill most of their hives through disease..

 

[Finman]

Finnie my sweet... is that because the water is so cold that their tongues would stick to it if they licked it... so what about the water that they warm up and drink from condensation within the hive?

Just a thought

Yeghes da

Water is frozen on inner wall 10 cm away. That stuff is called snow.

And bees are between combs. Short tongue. and the tongue will freeze if they push it out.
Bees do not drink water even from snow. Ice is not better.

They do not drink tee and they do not heat water.

 

[Fusion_power]

They do not drink tea and they do not heat water.

Well now, they are not very British are they?

 

[Finman]

Well now, they are not very British are they?

They are Native Italians.
.

 

[colinc]

There are lots of people trying to over complicate things in every aspect of life, why should beekeeping be any different.

Especially as we have damp warm winters where bees can be active on Christmas Day and therefore eating stores to allow them to fly and cleanse compared to Canada America and Finland where they just don't leave the hive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Nige.Coll]

I agree . Keeping insects is simple. Keep them dry, fed and protected in an environment similar to their natural one - and that's it..
Err then there are the diseases, and bad weather and queens dying or going AWOL and swarming and ....

It's so simple any fool can do it - and kill most of their hives through disease..

I didn't say it was simple now did I.
There is no need to try and over complicate it.

 

[Finman]

Especially as we have damp warm winters where bees can be active on Christmas Day and therefore eating stores to allow them to fly and cleanse compared to Canada America and Finland where they just don't leave the hive.

HIVES

 

[colinc]

HIVES

You have a continental climate we have a maritime one so no we do not have winters like you. Husbandary is different. We keep the water out you keep the snow out. But no, I don't put thermometers in my hives.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Finman]

You have a continental climate we have a maritime one so no we do not have winters like you. Husbandary is different. We keep the water out you keep the snow out. But no, I don't put thermometers in my hives.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

- we do not have continental climate
. Sea sorrounds us. I live on sea isle and my beehives are 15 km from sea.

- our country is in north. That is why we have snow.

- we have rain too 9 months a year. only 3-4 months snow

- we do not have thermometers in our hives

 

[colinc]

In winter your sea freezes over due to the close proximity of a rather large block of land called continental russia giving you a continental climate. Trace a line around the planet and the uk due to the close proximity of the North Atlantic drift oceanic current means we benefit from from a benevolent climate compared to similar latitudes. You don't have that, you have sea ice and icebergs. The only place on our latitude with a similar climate to the uk would be Vancouver for similar reasons. I'm off to drink some vodka and bury my head in the snow. Stop comparing uk winters to Finnish winters as we already know you know it all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Finman]

In winter your sea freezes over due to the close proximity of a rather large block of land called continental russia giving you a continental climate. Trace a line around the planet and the uk due to the close proximity of the North Atlantic drift oceanic current means we benefit from from a benevolent climate compared to similar latitudes. You don't have that, you have sea ice and icebergs. The only place on our latitude with a similar climate to the uk would be Vancouver for similar reasons. I'm off to drink some vodka and bury my head in the snow. Stop comparing uk winters to Finnish winters as we already know you know it all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I have studied geography in university.... from English books.

But we each have such climate what we have. And we must use our brains, when we adapt information, even if it comes from next door or from Australia.

But we have quite cold winter and long winter, and we surely know better about insulation. Nothing to be learn from Britain in that issue.
.
But I can see that British do not want to learn anything from me. But it is you problem out there with your unnecessary theories.
.
. Cold kills hives. It is sure. To us cold means -25C or -30C for long time. One day has no meaning.

Zero this time of year means very warm. We have now +4C.

Sea is practically without ice cover. http://ilmatieteenlaitos.fi/jaatilanne
ice cover now on left and normal cover on right
.

 

[colinc]

So we agree. The uk has not seen a -30 winter since the last iceage, and we never get sea ice despite being at the same latitude as Baffin Bay and north of Newfoundland.
We rarely get sub zero temperatures for more than a week at a time and only mountainous areas have standing snow for any length of time.
So yes you have lessons to impart but our issues, here, are with our mild and wet winters compared with your cold low humidity winters. We do not have months of subzero and so we do not need the exact same regime. We do not need the same insulation and if we over insulate we have to ensure more winter stores to supply flying, brood rearing bees with no forage.

I will stick with my cedar hives as I do not need 4cm thick polyhives with added insulation under the roof. It is as you say, you can overwinter bees in Finland in 2cm polyhives why would the uk need 4cm walls?

Kind regards and I wish you every success when your bees wake up.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Finman]

It is as you say, you can overwinter bees in Finland in 2cm polyhives why would the uk need 4cm walls?

You just buy 2 cm box if you need such.

Derekm wants such boxes which do not have handhelds. Derekm can fill the holes with styrofoam.

This seems to have 2 cm wall like Nacka had 5 years ago.

MAISEMORE

OLD STYLE NACKA

.

NEW NACKA

 

[user 6228]

HIVES

heat loss not temperature alone!!!

The hives covered in snow are losing a LOT less heat than the uncovered ones at night

Rain and wind chill as least as much if not more than cold

 

[Finman]

heat loss not temperature alone!!!

The hives covered in snow are losing a LOT less heat than the uncovered ones at night

in south we have only 2 months so much snow that it covers the hives. Wintering period is 7 months, when bees do not fly.

Snow gives a good protection against wind and birds but...........

Then that moisture. I have noticed that hives overwinter better without snow cover.

In Southern Finland, where the most beehives are, snow is often wet. Clearly bees do not like 100% air moisture under snow. So, theory and practice do not fit in this issue. . I bet that moisture adds nosema. The same happens if I carry the hives to the cellar which does not have electrict ventilation.

.
BUT 300 km to north guys tell that snow is essential in wintering. And they cannot avoid snow cover.

in Western Coast snow cover is mostly under 10C and it does not protect hives.


During last 25 years my hives have been above snow and they do better so than under 1 m heap.

.

 

[Finman]

Amount of snow in Finland now.

Snow cover aiding wintering is more theory than practice in South Finland. In North Finland we do not have much hives.

http://www.eeki.biz/lumen_syvyys.php


You can see how sea affects. Couple of cm snow on coast.
.

As you see, snow cover follows the vegetative zones.

And the form tells how Gulf stream affects more to our climate than Russian continent.

The width of Finland is 500 km and hight 1100 km.


The width of Britain is 400 km and the height 900 km.
.
.