Damp rather than cold kills bees

[Nige.Coll]

Mine are fine in wooden national boxes with 25mm of insulation under the roof.
It isn't that cold here in the UK.
If they do get any condensation inside the hive then it hasn't bothered them much. Maybe it saves them flying for water who knows.

Funny how peoples day job has an effect on their beekeeping.

 

[Finman]

Are you sure you studied experimental biology.

?

Typical Great British poking: Do you exist, do you have bees, have you studied anything, have you weather,

No scientist uses that kind of language.


I am sure. I have not studied experimental biology.

I have an education of biological researcher.
That is why I recognise home made scientiest.

. When you get from your "experimental hives" over 100 kg honey, let me know.
My best average yield is 130 kg.
.

 

[linoleum bonypart]

Well the Guardian reckons we will have lost the gulf stream effect by the end of the century and will be having Canadian weather....well I won't be around to care

 

[Finman]

Well the Guardian reckons we will have lost the gulf stream effect by the end of the century and will be having Canadian weather....well I won't be around to care

That is why you buy land from moon

https://www.lunarland.com/

 

[Finman]

..
Derekm advised me to insulate my polyhives in October 20, 2012 on Beemaster forum with his 1 years experience:

"insulate so the value for the entire hive is ~ 0.4w/ degree C
which is probably 1/2 of your hives... but i would need to test them to be sure.
simple ..."

He insisted, that he has tested his hives in -20C, but he does not know even now that the lenght of the cold weather rules in surviving.

Why the lengt? I will not tell to him. He must decide it with his "own experimental biology".
.
.

 

[Eyeman]

Really? These scientist types tell us 'x' is good for us, is bad for us, causes cancer, good, bad etc etc.....
I'd take the advice of years of experience over theory thanks.

What a blinkered outlook on life.
Sad!
Do you label everyone in society with that tar brush?

 

[Finman]

Do you label everyone in society with that tar brush?

Everyone .

 

[Swarm]

Too many arm chair, back seat driver beekeepers around.

^^
Do you tar everyone with the same brush?
Feel free to blindly accept scientific research if you like but don't expect everyone to show your enthusiasm. Nothing 'sad' or blinkered about it.

 

[user 6228]

^^
Do you tar everyone with the same brush?
Feel free to blindly accept scientific research if you like but don't expect everyone to show your enthusiasm. Nothing 'sad' or blinkered about it.

To accept any scientific research does not mean you accept all of it or that you do it blindly.
I shout more at academic papers now than the radio now.

however not to accept the basics is lunacy.

basics like buoyancy of heated and less dense gases , heat capacity, conductance, latent heat of vaporisation, dew point

and to ignore these basics as "theory" and not "experience" is narrow minded and blinkered to put it mildly.

and frankly anyone who does so is missing out on life

 

[madasafish]

Very patronising post.
Neglect is the reason colonies die.

I have had colonies die from:
Starvation (in year 1)
Queenless in March (year 2)
AFB killed 7 out of 8 colonies ( year 5).

 

[Quis Custodiet]

I have had colonies die from:
Starvation (in year 1)
Queenless in March (year 2)
AFB killed 7 out of 8 colonies ( year 5).

Neglect, which may well not be deliberate (as I'm sure it was not in your case), but can be caused by many factors, principal one being probably inexperience and lack of knowledge. I too have had colony losses caused by the above and acknowledge there was an element of neglect.....I had a two day beekeeper helping me!

 

[Finman]

I like the physics and the maths in honeybees, it's fun !

Fusion Power is very good in bee math. . He can explain everyting with bee calculator.

I use some calculations in pasture analysis and Google Earth.

 

[Fusion_power]

Fusion Power is very good in bee math. Super fun.

I'll take that as a compliment finman, even if it was meant tongue in cheek. Your abacus is rather dated.

Neglect kills bees. If they are neglected, they will tend to die or become dinks at a rate similar to feral colonies.

Going queenless kills bees. I've lost 1 colony this year because they went queenless.

Queen becoming a drone layer kills bees. I had one this year and as soon as I found her, I killed her and replaced her with a healthy young queen. I have 2 more queens that may be candidates for this treatment but waiting a few more weeks to be sure.

Starvation kills bees. Bees can starve to death even when an abundance of honey is nearby. This is usually because they are tethered to a small patch of brood and won't leave it to move to honey just a few inches away. I lost one colony to starvation this year, mostly associated with severe autumn drought, but also because the beekeeper did not feed enough to keep them alive.

Disease kills bees. Whether it is AFB or nosema or whatever virus du jour, disease kills them.

Lack of water kills bees. This one usually surprises beekeepers with years of experience. In winter, bees can be water deficient and, because of cold, cannot forage.

Pests kill bees. Varroa arguably is the number one cause of death, but there are plenty of other pests up to and including skunks and woodpeckers.

Did you notice two things missing? Neither cold nor damp kills bees. Both can be triggers to other problems such as damp conditions encouraging nosema and chalk. Cold can be implicated in starvation because the bees can't move to stores as above.

Bees that are cold and dry thrive. Bees that are warm and dry with a water source thrive.


I'm waiting for DerekM to figure out a way to ensure water supply in the wintering hive. When he beats that issue, I think he might be onto something. With a warmer hive interior, the bees can move around and get to stores more easily. This should prevent brood tethered bees from starving and should enable brood rearing earlier in the spring. What I find offputting is the constant refrain that a living system has to be reduced to mathematical formulas. Find a way to measure stress on the bees, then take appropriate preventive steps. Ask the question, with warmer hives, where does the stress move to? finman uses aquarium heaters to boost his bees in early spring. Why is this so effective?

 

[Finman]

finman uses aquarium heaters to boost his bees in early spring. Why is this so effective?

That is math.

If I have a cluster whick can keep warm a brood ball, whose radius is 10 cm, then I add a heater and bees can keep warm a brood ball whose radius is 5 cm more, the volume is 3 fold.

 

[MartinL]

To accept any scientific research does not mean you accept all of it or that you do it blindly.
I shout more at academic papers now than the radio now.

however not to accept the basics is lunacy.

basics like buoyancy of heated and less dense gases , heat capacity, conductance, latent heat of vaporisation, dew point

and to ignore these basics as "theory" and not "experience" is narrow minded and blinkered to put it mildly.

and frankly anyone who does so is missing out on life

This is as always;
Your basics & YOUR theory.

It simply does not get cold enough here in the UK to worry about all the insulation you keep banging on about!

You confuse Damp with wet.

Damp, & the humidity within your super insulated hives can provide perfect conditions for deadly fungal growth.
Take a brief look at the building regulations for your home, quite the opposite of the theory you hawk for the home of everyone else's bees.

 

[Finman]

.

That ball's volume tells too that a tiny colony cannot have fast build up compared to a big colony.

 

[MuswellMetro]

A Master Beekeeper who is taking the NDB exam this month told me that because i insulate my roofs winter and summer, that my crown boards would warp due to humidity and the bees would not be able to dry the nectar....he came back in july to see my hives with 6 or 7 supers on but still wasnt convinced

 

[Quis Custodiet]

A Master Beekeeper who is taking the NDB exam this month told me that because i insulate my roofs winter and summer, that my crown boards would warp due to humidity and the bees would not be able to dry the nectar....he came back in july to see my hives with 6 or 7 supers on but still wasnt convinced

Another two day beekeeper. I am vindicated.

 

[user 6228]

I'll take that as a compliment finman, even if it was meant tongue in cheek. Your abacus is rather dated.

Neglect kills bees. If they are neglected, they will tend to die or become dinks at a rate similar to feral colonies.

Going queenless kills bees. I've lost 1 colony this year because they went queenless.

Queen becoming a drone layer kills bees. I had one this year and as soon as I found her, I killed her and replaced her with a healthy young queen. I have 2 more queens that may be candidates for this treatment but waiting a few more weeks to be sure.

Starvation kills bees. Bees can starve to death even when an abundance of honey is nearby. This is usually because they are tethered to a small patch of brood and won't leave it to move to honey just a few inches away. I lost one colony to starvation this year, mostly associated with severe autumn drought, but also because the beekeeper did not feed enough to keep them alive.

Disease kills bees. Whether it is AFB or nosema or whatever virus du jour, disease kills them.

Lack of water kills bees. This one usually surprises beekeepers with years of experience. In winter, bees can be water deficient and, because of cold, cannot forage.

Pests kill bees. Varroa arguably is the number one cause of death, but there are plenty of other pests up to and including skunks and woodpeckers.

Did you notice two things missing? Neither cold nor damp kills bees. Both can be triggers to other problems such as damp conditions encouraging nosema and chalk. Cold can be implicated in starvation because the bees can't move to stores as above.

Bees that are cold and dry thrive. Bees that are warm and dry with a water source thrive.


I'm waiting for DerekM to figure out a way to ensure water supply in the wintering hive. When he beats that issue, I think he might be onto something. With a warmer hive interior, the bees can move around and get to stores more easily. This should prevent brood tethered bees from starving and should enable brood rearing earlier in the spring. What I find offputting is the constant refrain that a living system has to be reduced to mathematical formulas. Find a way to measure stress on the bees, then take appropriate preventive steps. Ask the question, with warmer hives, where does the stress move to? finman uses aquarium heaters to boost his bees in early spring. Why is this so effective?

There a water supply if you arrange the dew point to be within the hive. This easily implemented in a tall, narrow, highly insulated(especially on the roof), water vapour impermeable or highly retardant cavity with a single opening at the bottom. The high level of insulation combined with the water vapour quasi-impermeability raises the relative humidity. The stratification with low wall heat heat loss makes the condensation appear on the walls at a relatively high temperature. Another demonstration that the bees on taking up residence in the the tops of tree cavities have it sussed.

 

[user 6228]

This is as always;
Your basics & YOUR theory.

It simply does not get cold enough here in the UK to worry about all the insulation you keep banging on about!

You confuse Damp with wet.

Damp, & the humidity within your super insulated hives can provide perfect conditions for deadly fungal growth.
Take a brief look at the building regulations for your home, quite the opposite of the theory you hawk for the home of everyone else's bees.

you confuse temperature and heat loss, You can get enough heat loss in this country to kill people in summer.
and fungal growth is not necessarily deadly , i eat it most weeks
mushrooms, cheese, bread etc. Bees live in trees cavities created by fungus, bees clean the fungus off combs.

As regards building regs they specify a water vapour retardant, honeybees apply their own to match their requirements of 90% RH.