Commercial members usernames

[nonstandard]

I'm OK with the status quo.

However; in my view, anyone who blatantly advertises through their username automatically devalues any comments and advice they give on the forum. My reasoning for this is that as they have a commercial interest they would gain by leading other users to use their services or buy their products. The wise ones would perhaps be better with a regular username and then surreptitiously pedal their wares

I have great respect for those forum users who run commercial operations yet freely give unbiased and useful advice without so much as a hint of commercial gain.

 

[Waxing]

Hivemaker is a long-standing member who gives good advice & comments. I've not seen him canvass for business so he isn't taking advantage of his occupation for financial advantage. Therefore I'd vote to leave him as he is.

 

[fincaazul]

That would be a bit harsh if you include someone like Hivemaker who is a longstanding member who does not abuse the forum

Thought he gave people a rash!

 

[Teemore]

I've been a member of the forum for a wee wheen over a year and in that time I consider that Admin has effectively managed the issue of blatant advertising. I don't mind someone having their business name as a username - it is not as if forum users are being forced into going off and looking up a person's business web site and if someone does, it is their own choice. I dislike threads being hijacked/created solely for the purpose of business advertising. As others have said, I feel it goes against the ethos of this forum.
I know that there are a number of people on this forum who make their livelihoods (or a large part of them) from bees and beekeeping and they are some of the people whose advice I value most. There is a value to the advice of someone who has kept 30+ hives for ten years compared to a person who has kept one colony for two years.
If people are advertising their business/products etc, those posts should stay in the "For Sale" section. If people persist in blatantly plugging their wares by hijacking other threads then they should be blocked from posting for a time.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

It is you that has brought up the matter of "ripping off".
I merely observed that while she charges non-beekeepers £55 for an introduction to the bees and a look inside a hive, others would willingly offer that free to genuinely interested individuals.
Regarding "self-publicising" - she's localish to me, and I can only presume that you have not seen the signwritten vehicle! She is very keen on getting her domain/business name known. Do Google her forum username, and see the publicity that she has achieved without paying for advertising. Using it for Amazon reviews is quite cunning!

Itma, I'm not trying to have a go, just suggesting that it is easier to have a straight NO ADVERTISING rule than getting into whether one member's advertising is more valid / ethical than another. I was just trying to point out that what one person calls a rip-off someone else might think is good value. How do we decide? Remember, admin will have to enforce this rule, so it shouldn't be overly complicated.
FWIW, I voted to ban commercial usernames, but I wouldn't include people like Hivemaker in that - I don't really consider his name commercial, whereas a name like mine obvioulsy is. However, after my initial baptism of fire I have always tried not to mention my commerical interests unless it is of direct relevance to someone, like PH's "Do you make your living from selling Honey" thread (or whatever it was).

 

[pbh4]

I don't really consider his name commercial, whereas a name like mine obvioulsy is

It honestly never crossed my mind that your user name was commercial! I just thought you made great british honey like the rest of us. I'll go and look you up! Thanks for the advert.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

It honestly never crossed my mind that your user name was commercial! I just thought you made great british honey like the rest of us. I'll go and look you up! Thanks for the advert.

Mwah, hah, hah - my covert advertising plan worked!!

 

[Hebeegeebee]

A beekeeping course was advertised in the "Beekeeping Courses" section. There are other courses that have been posted there which are charging money too. So what's the problem?

Is the problem one of :-

a) It's perceived as being a bit daft to have a 1-afternoon course in beefarming when it would take sooo much longer. "Take my correspondence course to become a rocket scientist in just one week; no proir knowledge required" Taking advantage of the gullable perhaps.

If the course title was "If you have 10 colonies and have been keeping bees for 5 years or more I will explain how to scale-up; what you need with regard to extraction equipment, food hygene, how to deal with contracts with farmers for apiary sites etc" that would be better.

b) Jean has only 38 posts and is not offering much visble support to the beekeeping community.

c) Using the pm system as a free email service to promote the business.

d) Jean has not paid to support the forum.

e) all of the above.

Most beekeepers with more than a very few hives will have something to sell - the odd jar of honey at a car boot sale or sell a spare queen for a tenner or whatever so many have some commercial interest.

Admin, you have a difficult job to keep the forum on an even keel and I'm sure that most here don't want blatant advertising or "This helpful post was sponsored by your friends at PESTICIDES R US"

 

[itma]

... just suggesting that it is easier to have a straight NO ADVERTISING rule ... Remember, admin will have to enforce this rule, so it shouldn't be overly complicated.

Indeed if the primary need is for simplicity, then that's the obvious way to go.

Personally, I'd hope that the forum could aspire to the best solution for the forum, even if it isn't the simplest or most clear-cut.

FWIW, I voted to ban commercial usernames, but I wouldn't include people like Hivemaker in that - I don't really consider his name commercial, whereas a name like mine obvioulsy is. However, after my initial baptism of fire I have always tried not to mention my commerical interests unless it is of direct relevance to someone, like PH's "Do you make your living from selling Honey" thread (or whatever it was).

And I haven't voted, because I'd prefer a different alternative - which embraces your current position.
Because I think its good to know who is who, I'd like to see 'commercial' usernames encouraged BUT with the sword of Damocles hanging over them. If you give Admin the impression that you are spamming or trying to take commercial advantage, then you will lose the privilege of being allowed to use that username, and have any future posts by other usernames praising you being instantly suspected of being "just more spam". As a guilty spammer, everafter you'd be having to prove your innocence. The presumption would become guilty of future spamming.



Unlike Norton, I don't consider that taking advantage of the ethos of an independent non-commercial forum is being 'clever'.

So she is clever - so what! Making a go of her business - good for her.

And in fact, I think that is the test - "Are you taking commercial advantage and abusing the spirit of the forum?"

I don't think a hard and fast rule would be nearly as good or as effective as relying on the judgement of an interested observer.
And putting firm but gentle pressure (do you want to keep using your trading name on here) on commercial usernames to 'play nicely'.

 

[drstitson]

"He is literally one wax strip away from the menopause"

I think that is how they make cheap far eastern foundation - depilation of trannies whilst wearing their fishnets. they have sweatshops full of kids meticulously picking the bristles out before packing for sale. Brood foundation for my jumbos must be sourced from lads/"lasses" with quite some BMI. The really cheap stuff is from back-sack-crack treatments!!!

(come to think of it that sounds a bit like HRP with his tweezers in his varroa control shed)

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Because I think its good to know who is who, I'd like to see 'commercial' usernames encouraged BUT with the sword of Damocles hanging over them. If you give Admin the impression that you are spamming or trying to take commercial advantage, then you will lose the privilege of being allowed to use that username, and have any future posts by other usernames praising you being instantly suspected of being "just more spam". As a guilty spammer, everafter you'd be having to prove your innocence. The presumption would become guilty of future spamming.

Yes, I think I probably agree with most of that. But....it would require increased vigilance for those with non-commercial names trying to make commercial gain. For example, if I was a queen salesman what's to stop me changing my username to Andyb35 and them PM'ing every person who posts a "help, my hive is queenless" thread.

 

[Chris B]

"He is literally one wax strip away from the menopause"

I think that is how they make cheap far eastern foundation - depilation of trannies whilst wearing their fishnets. they have sweatshops full of kids meticulously picking the bristles out before packing for sale. Brood foundation for my jumbos must be sourced from lads/"lasses" with quite some BMI. The really cheap stuff is from back-sack-crack treatments!!!

(come to think of it that sounds a bit like HRP with his tweezers in his varroa control shed)

That does it. I'm definitely converting everything to TBH's now!

 

[itma]

Yes, I think I probably agree with most of that. But....it would require increased vigilance for those with non-commercial names trying to make commercial gain. For example, if I was a queen salesman what's to stop me changing my username to Andyb35 and them PM'ing every person who posts a "help, my hive is queenless" thread.

I don't think anything has been yet proposed to deal with that form of abuse.

Or that that should prevent the encouragement of open trade/usernames with the clear message that this is a privilege that can be withdrawn on an individual basis if any impression is given that the privilege has been abused.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Straightforward rules like, "No Advertising whatsoever" or "Anything goes" might be clear - and therefore comforting to some - but are not exactly helpful or sophisticated.

What we need is 'fuzzy logic' applied to this issue.

Trouble is, I'm not at all clear what that means.

A

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Straightforward rules like, "No Advertising whatsoever" or "Anything goes" might be clear - and therefore comforting to some - but are not exactly helpful or sophisticated.

What we need is 'fuzzy logic' applied to this issue.

Trouble is, I'm not at all clear what that means.

A

I agree, but that is what we have got at the moment isn't it - a 'no advertising' rule that is often blurred or circumvented for various reasons?
And I think the reason admin has raised the issue is because some/many people aren't happy with it.
Perhaps we are trying to reinvent the wheel - we already have a no advertising rule that admin occasionally bends for a worthy cause. That seems to be what people are saying they want.

 

[Chris B]

we already have a no advertising rule

Not exactly. We have a no "commercial" advertising rule which is a bit grey.

Which of the following is "commercial"?:

1. A 6-colony newish beekeeper advertising half a dozen 5 frame nucs in July at £150 each. Said beekeeper might have made a few dozen posts on this forum.

2. A reputable professional beekeeper offering 50 or 60 5 frame nucs in May at £130 each, as a sideline to the main business of honey production. Said beekeeper might have made hundreds or thousands of post on this forum.

3. Non-beekeeper or fat-cat company offering something of interest to beekeepers, but not a forum participant.

The answer IMHO is all 3 are commercial. At the moment we only allow one of the above and it's probably not the one that is most beneficial. Simplest thing is not to allow anything - I find it hard to envisage any advert that isn't inherently commercial, whether you own 1 colony or 2000.

 

[itma]

... we already have a no advertising rule that admin occasionally bends for a worthy cause. That seems to be what people are saying they want.

Not exactly. We have a no "commercial" advertising rule which is a bit grey.

Which of the following is "commercial"?: ...

Just a reminder that THIS poll is about "commercial usernames".

Not about advertising nucs for sale.



My position is that IF you are to be allowed to keep a (user=domain=business) name on this forum, that should carry a higher responsibility to avoid postings that could be interpreted as business advertising.

Using a business name as a username AND starting a thread about your own product ... to be blunt, I think that's taking the piss.

 

[The Cumbrian]

Just a reminder that THIS poll is about "commercial usernames".

Not about advertising nucs for sale.



My position is that IF you are to be allowed to keep a (user=domain=business) name on this forum, that should carry a higher responsibility to avoid postings that could be interpreted as business advertising.

Using a business name as a username AND starting a thread about your own product ... to be blunt, I think that's taking the piss.

 

[Storm™]

Years ago I learnt to Skydive at British Sky Sports just outside of Scarborough. Nicky (the son) taught me. It was fantastic. I stayed there a few times and got to know the family well.

In order to progress and grow they decided to open the floor to suggestions to the club members. Membership was free btw. So Anyway it started off all friendly with random people who hardly used the club suggesting stuff, along with the full timers. The idea of a website to promote the club was hatched. Shortly afterwards the problems started.

Before long in the space of one weekend there were full blown rows about how things should be done. It was totally forgotten that:

1. The members did not pay for membership.
2. That the premises did not belong to them.
3. That it was by the good grace of the owners and their love of the sport that the club existed at all.
4. That in order to uphold these new ideas that members would have to contribute financially and also with their time.
5. That it was just a suggestion to get a feel for things. Not their rite.

The long and short of it was, David (Nicky's dad and a great great man) said in his thick Irish Brogue, "Thats enough of this Sh*t, I will not have the tail wag the dog".

It was a poll to gauge opinion. Not what "IS" going to happen. Just think things through and where they will go from here once your great ideas are hatched. And as I always say to my fellow Essex scumbags that move to Cornwall and want to tarmac and streetlamp the crap out of the place - "You moved here because you saw something that you loved and had to be part of, and moved away from what you hated". SO like them dont try and make this something that you think it should be - try and enjoy it for how wonderful it is and remember why you came here and why your are STILL here.

 

[Norton]

Why not just make a commercial section and be over and done with it. The members who do not like advertising can stay away. Simple and clear cut.
Anyone that attempts to advertise elsewhere is pulled up.