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Into the lions den;523303 said:
practically zero relevance to our situation.
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agreed

Many stats are meaningless. Finland is different to Scotland which is different to England.

I have no doubt your Wiltshire site (are you still in Wiltshire?) fairs very different to some of mine just 25 miles away. The topography is completely different.

Although Finman is very proud of what he does (which is fair), where stats are involved, he can only compare against a similar beekeeper in a similar apiary, in the same locale on the same year.

2009 was my best year. In September alone each hive was pulling in over 15Kg a week. Several hives exceeded 180Kg, without an OSR flower in sight.

Stats are meaningless without direct comparisons. Even the most unknowledgeable of beekeepers (as I was in 2009) can fair well if the forage and the weather is right.
 
Finman;523346 said:
.
It is beekeeping skills which makes honey yields. So simple.
.
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Not quite correct. Its beekeeping skills (and methods) that maximise honey yield.

Even the very best honey getters in the UK, in particular in the north and west, had little harvest last year. It just was not there to get. These are people, like me, who will migrate long distances for a crop.

Even the queens did not mate in May, very few in July and almost none in August. Too cold. We had colonies slaughtering their drones in early July due to low incomes from the field.

There is an old English saying that you cannot make a silk purse from a sows ear. Last year was like that. If your bees were here, the massive strength would only get you a massive feed bill. Almost irrespective of where you went. Even the borage failed in some areas.
 
Into the lions den;523352 said:
You live in a totally different climate, different airstreams, different floral region.
?
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And different skills. You forgot that. Our beekeepers are serious honey producers. Very few have "do nothing method". I do not know any who has "catch and reliese method".

But it is coming here: "pet beekeeping" and "roof beekeeping". Ridiculous to keep hives in the dirtiest places in towns.

Roofs are the most difficult places to hives; HALO! climatology!!!!

Varroa killed our "do nothing" beekeepers 30 years ago. We had lots of them.

If climate is so important,
- why any beekeeping book does not have any chapter about "climatology issues"

- Why this forum has any discussion about "how to take advantage from climatological factors".

I have a consept, how to select my outer pasture sites with soil and climatological factors. How to take advantage from summer heat, because basicly this country is a cold . How to notice too dry or too wet soils.

If I just put hives here and there, I get nothing. The most difficult thing is to read nature and landscape, to where put the hives next time.

I have seen from British beekeepers pictures, how they situate their hives. I think Into, that you should teach your fellow-countrymen, how to situate the hives. No need spend your climatology gun powder on me.

I have teached years to British beekeepers "honey bee nutrition". Just on awfull level that knowledge in Britain. Just today I again read rubbish about that issue.

Then I have teached varroa treating for years in this forum. And what I get: genuide British poking.
.

.
 
Into the lions den;523352 said:
I also consider it very silly indeed to sit trying to score points against amateur beekeepers. Their aims and rewards come in many forms, and to judge them by your standards...or mines....is futile and just damn wrong. Their main harvest is pleasure. In that I somewhat envy them.....its a delight to be able to take enough time to watch the bees and all the coloured pollens, all their varied behaviour, and just enjoy the situation.
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:yeahthat: :iagree:
Into the lions den;523352 said:
Your point is? Other than to annoy people?

Before you make another inflammatory remark.....you may just like to know I am trained in meteorology, climatology, and oceanography from an earlier life........and I dont care how many times you look up Milton Keynes.

You live in a totally different climate, different airstreams, different floral region.

Milton Keynes gets a lot better than most of northern and western UK, but also suffers from 'cereal desert' syndrome as do large sections of Britain. You know what you are talking about for Finland for sure........but for my area in Scotland you plainly don't have a clue.

I also consider it very silly indeed to sit trying to score points against amateur beekeepers. Their aims and rewards come in many forms, and to judge them by your standards...or mines....is futile and just damn wrong. Their main harvest is pleasure. In that I somewhat envy them.....its a delight to be able to take enough time to watch the bees and all the coloured pollens, all their varied behaviour, and just enjoy the situation.

Also....who told you I was trying to teach you ANYTHING? That seems to me to be task that would be both unwanted and ill advised. I have never attempted....nor would I....to pass comment on how you do things in the environment you know best and I don't. The same respect back might be nice?
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not worthynot worthy
 
I for one tend to agree with Finman both on this and many other things. Live and let live is what I say.
 
I already missed you
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Where I come from, consistently hitting what you are aiming at is considered a desirable attribute. Maybe those blivets could be aimed a bit better to get the job done.

Cool damp weather with a lot of rain is normal here at this time of year. I'm seeing between 1 and 4 frames of brood in all colonies. Overall, the colonies are about 3 weeks ahead of normal. This indicates serious problems soon with swarming. So Finman, how do you prevent swarming?
 
I agree... in the uk there are a huge amount of terrible beekeepers.

...but then we have a huge amount of beekeepers... 50,000 documented and probably as many non registered.

With an even number of stupid beekeepers, the uk will have 30 to every stupid finnish beekeeper.

However, with the weather less severe in the uk, which 'may' make beekeeping easier. As a result we have a lot of 'fashion' beekeepers who have one or two hives, who have the delusion and smugness they are helping save the planet, whom in reality would not spot an afb or efb hive if they tripped over it, and thats if they even bothered inspecting on a semi regular basis.
This may be a factor meaning finland has overall a better class of beekeeper.

I truely agree with finman with his anti 'leave alone' policy. This sort of mentality is a danger not only to themselves, but their neighbours beehives, and their neighbours neighbours beehives.

The bbka premote better beekeeping (even the out of date stuff). It is just a shame many of its members do not practice and teach the same.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by-Fusion_power-. So Finman, how do you prevent swarming?

Reply fro Finman: So far 50-70 cm snow keeps them inside.


Ahhhh! So he does need help from the weather!:)
 
peteinwilts;523421 said:
I agree... in the uk there are a huge amount of terrible beekeepers.

...but then we have a huge amount of beekeepers... 50,000 documented and probably as many non registered.

........


The bbka premote better beekeeping (even the out of date stuff). It is just a shame many of its members do not practice and teach the same.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that I agree with you ... I don't think the UK is inundated with bad beekeepers .. indeed, I'm not convinced that there are anywhere near the numbers of beekeepers you are stating. BBKA membership is currently about 24000 and the Bee Farmers Association represents another 400 or so. I rather doubt that, at present, there are anywhere near double that total that are not affiliated to some sort of beekeeping association but, even if there is, it's still half of your suggested total.

I don't think, within the 'registered' number that there are very many 'let alone' beekeepers - there may be quite a few like me that do not treat their bees for varroa but I don't consider myself 'let alone' by any stretch of the imagination.

I would also question what the definition of a 'bad beekeeper' is ... indeed, I think I'm going to start a thread with that in mind.

I truly believe that most people who choose to keep bees do so with the best interests of their bees at heart ... there may be levels of competence and knowledge but any beekeeper who does not learn, in the first year or so, a bit about keeping bees is not going to keep them long - not always from the point of view of disease or infestation - but because they will almost certainly swarm .. mine did and still do given the chance.

So .. your and Finman's somewhat disparaging view of British Beekeepers I feel is misplaced .. I've only come across a few truly incompetent beekeepers and even these I would describe as, at worst, misguided and at best crying out for help. They are very much in the minority and on this forum I would suggest that they are an even tinier number - and few of us need to be continually reminded by our Finnish member of what he considers to be our faults.

If you are referring to the people that follow the Phil Chandler doctrine then I can understand that the philosophy of TBH and similar low interference hives does not sit well with traditional beekeepers but, actually, a larger portion of people who walk an alternative path have as much knowledge about bees as do those who follow a more traditional route.

So ... let's be a bit more charitable and give our nations beekeepers a little more credit than we sometimes get from Finnie ...
 
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