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[Wilco]

I'm genuinely shocked. We've not got even remotely close to a frost so far and many nights we still have temperatures in double figures. The forecast for next weekend has daytime temperatures at 14°C. For almost two thirds of the way through November it's utterly crazy.

James

Turns out it's now raining as there's a storm due... So much for that frost!

 

[Antipodes]

It's not at all surprising that temperatures are increasing in and around the Australian continent. Apart from Atacama and possibly California, I don't know of anywhere else that has sucked the ground so dry of water. That's the real reason why you have so many fires. Try putting some of the water back. There's a lesson to be learned from Saudi Arabia and what they are doing to improve their hydrology.

Me and my better half went on a cruise holiday earlier this year to Noraay and it was absolutely surreal sailing through a vivid orange sea, not blue, or green, or grey but vivid orange. A massive algal bloom conveniently blamed on climate change. More likely however, is millions of tonnes of fertilizer and pesticide wash off from industrial farming feeding the bloom. Far more likely to trap heat in the surface currents of the seas & oceans and a far more likely cause of melting polar ice.

I notice that Australia continues to use intensive farming techniques based on heavy use of fertilizers and neonics which are way more deadly to coral reefs and therein to dependant migratory birds than a slight fluctuation in temperature.

Someone once said to me that when you are in real trouble, there is not a whole lot of screaming like in the movies. He had been in a sinking fishing boat.
This video is from the 2019 fires. It's the eucalypt trees. Totally explosive.
"Jasper, put the blanket up".

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I'm genuinely shocked. We've not got even remotely close to a frost so far and many nights we still have temperatures in double figures. The forecast for next weekend has daytime temperatures at 14°C. For almost two thirds of the way through November it's utterly crazy.

James

Minus one outside when I woke up yesterday morning

 

[JamezF]

Minus one outside when I woke up yesterday morning

It's grim oop north.

James

 

[judy12]

I seem to think the signs are not necessarily getting warmer in your particular corner, but unusual and/or extreme weather events. That sounds about right.

 

[Moobee]

The earth looks flat to me and I've never seen a spherical earth with my own eyes so I don't believe it.

LOL!
I have seen the earth from high up. I was lucky to get upgraded on a business flight home from NY onto Concorde and in those days you could go onto the flight deck (we were a bit giddy with excitement and the steward asked if we would like to...). I have a photo somewhere looking through the front windows with the curve of the earth clearly visible.

 

[Moobee]

I'm genuinely shocked. We've not got even remotely close to a frost so far and many nights we still have temperatures in double figures. The forecast for next weekend has daytime temperatures at 14°C. For almost two thirds of the way through November it's utterly crazy.

James

It's so mild my bees have consumed the supers I left on, most of the syrup and i'm having to feed fondant....

 

[Moobee]

Turns out it's now raining as there's a storm due... So much for that frost!

Just been battered by storm Debi taking the dog out for a walk. I say walk... blown across the park more like.

 

[Jonnyl]

but he didn't 'discover' the earth was round, everyone knew the earth was round way before then - it's only in recent times that the flat earthers appeared over the horizon, a bit like climate change deniers

Copernicus discovered heliocentricity. Later refined by Galileo. Although when Galileo was sentenced by the inquisition he is reputed to have muttered "but it is round" as they led him away.

 

[JamezF]

Copernicus discovered heliocentricity. Later refined by Galileo. Although when Galileo was sentenced by the inquisition he is reputed to have muttered "but it is round" as they led him away.

Not quite. The Catholic church believed the Earth was at the centre of the Universe and everything moved around it. Once Galileo had access to a telescope he was able to determine this wasn't true and the logical deduction from his observations was that the Earth did in fact move around the Sun as Copernicus and others had suggested. Eventually the Inquisition forced him to recant, after which he allegedly said (though most likely he didn't) "E pur si muove" -- "And yet it [the Earth] moves".

By the time Galileo was alive I don't believe there was any real doubt that the Earth was round. Magellan easily predates him and whilst Magellan himself didn't make the entire trip, some of his crew did sail all the way around the world.

James

 

[Wilco]

Not quite. The Catholic church believed the Earth was at the centre of the Universe and everything moved around it. Once Galileo had access to a telescope he was able to determine this wasn't true and the logical deduction from his observations was that the Earth did in fact move around the Sun as Copernicus and others had suggested. Eventually the Inquisition forced him to recant, after which he allegedly said (though most likely he didn't) "E pur si muove" -- "And yet it [the Earth] moves".

By the time Galileo was alive I don't believe there was any real doubt that the Earth was round. Magellan easily predates him and whilst Magellan himself didn't make the entire trip, some of his crew did sail all the way around the world.

James

Interestingly I believe someone in ancient Greece proposed heliocentricity but it was broadly rejected.

Also interesting, Copernicus was a Catholic priest.

A different perspective on Galileo here.

 

[JamezF]

A different perspective on Galileo here.

There's some outrageous "whataboutery" in that piece and rather careful selection of how facts are presented, but I don't think it really says much that's genuinely different from how others understand the story. As it says, what really caused him trouble was effectively claiming that the Catholic church (and ultimately their interpretation of the bible) was wrong. That and perhaps that he pretty much ridiculed the pope in "Dialogue" as I understand it. From books I've read about him he does come across as possibly rather difficult and either unwilling or unable to "let it go" in many aspects of his scientific investigations. I assume he must have had the negatives of some dodgy portraits of Pope Urban because I don't think many other people would have got off so relatively lightly as he did.

James

 

[Karol]

LOL!
I have seen the earth from high up. I was lucky to get upgraded on a business flight home from NY onto Concorde and in those days you could go onto the flight deck (we were a bit giddy with excitement and the steward asked if we would like to...). I have a photo somewhere looking through the front windows with the curve of the earth clearly visible.

Now that's deserving of some envy!

 

[Wilco]

There's some outrageous "whataboutery" in that piece and rather careful selection of how facts are presented, but I don't think it really says much that's genuinely different from how others understand the story. As it says, what really caused him trouble was effectively claiming that the Catholic church (and ultimately their interpretation of the bible) was wrong. That and perhaps that he pretty much ridiculed the pope in "Dialogue" as I understand it. From books I've read about him he does come across as possibly rather difficult and either unwilling or unable to "let it go" in many aspects of his scientific investigations. I assume he must have had the negatives of some dodgy portraits of Pope Urban because I don't think many other people would have got off so relatively lightly as he did.

James

Yes, thought it was quite deliberately written. Just goes to show we all get things wrong. I've not read up much on him so would like to work out why he was so doggedly certain if the comments about not being able to prove it at the time were correct.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Copernicus discovered heliocentricity. Later refined by Galileo. Although when Galileo was sentenced by the inquisition he is reputed to have muttered "but it is round" as they led him away.

But what about the four elephants standing on the back of the giant star turtle?

 

[JamezF]

Yes, thought it was quite deliberately written. Just goes to show we all get things wrong. I've not read up much on him so would like to work out why he was so doggedly certain if the comments about not being able to prove it at the time were correct.

My understanding is that he couldn't ultimately prove it because the question of why star parallax wasn't observed (as they believed should have been the case) remained unanswered. That required much better instrumentation and a better idea of just how far away stars are before it was finally addressed, I think something like 150 years later.

As has already been mentioned, the likes of Kepler and Copernicus had been progressing with the heliocentric model, but I've always suspected that either their religious beliefs wouldn't let them accept it as the most likely explanation, or they did believe it but just couched it in terms of being a simpler way to merely predict the behaviour of the planets and stars by comparison with some of the bizarre and arcane models that had been created to explain observations such as the retrograde motion of the planets, out of a desire to limit how much trouble they got into with the church.

Galileo was certainly aware of the heliocentric model and was perhaps a little more "flexibly religious" (for example having three children outside marriage). Once he started making observations with his telescopes that not only couldn't be explained by the existing religious views, but actually ran counter to them, whilst still being consistent with the considerably simpler heliocentric model I think he just found that to be the most likely and compelling explanation. I'd guess that his self-belief and dogmatism (for want of a better word) probably accounted for much of the rest.

James

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Galileo was perhaps a little more "flexibly religious" (for example having three children outside marriage).

Well, if it was good enough for the pope..................................................

 

[rossbyjove]

Well ... you would not be the first member of the flat earth society found in beekeeping circles !

I heard that flat earth society membership has fallen off ...........

 

[Darryl]

So is it flat or not? Planning a cruise to Australia next year and SWMBO doesn't fancy sailing upside down.

 

[Antipodes]

So is it flat or not? Planning a cruise to Australia next year and SWMBO doesn't fancy sailing upside down.

Well, there are certain issues here, so be prepared.
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