e-petition to have convicted rioters lose their benefits..

[kazmcc]

I live among these idiots. They behave this way every day in their own neighbourhoods. Terrorising decent people, I had to keep my children inside for a whole summer one year as they used my fence to lean on to smoke their dope and the smoke wafted through my garden, along with their talk of " Cutting people up " They are blatant, they don't care, and the police do nothing. Crimestopper got snappy with me as I rang that often. If you are discovered talking to the police around here you will have your house burned down with you in it. The police knew about them, but I live in a poor area so we aren't considered worthy of resources, and anyway, they weren't bothering the better off area down the road so why interfere.

So now they moved their behaviour to the city centers. They are untouchable right, so why not smash up the city, grab yourself a new TV in the process? Get together and profit from their antisocial behaviour. Now people take notice though, because it disrupts their lives and businesses. The night of the Manchester riot, I had my bedroom window open for the first time this summer as it was so peaceful outside. I would cut their benefits. I know the type of thug that was behaving this way. They don't rise until 2pm, sell drugs all day and generally intimidate decent people who are just passing to go to the shop. They don't deserve the help they receive and abuse it. when I heard that they would lose their tenancy if found to live in social housing I nearly cried with joy. It is about time these groups were stopped. I am scouring the news in case I spot one of the little scroats. I do differentiate between the poll tax riots and the students marches and between this. These people were not fighting for a cause. It was a spread of antisocial behaviour from the inner city areas it is left to thrive.

That's my view anyway.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Deprived means travelling 1 hour home after an afternoon shift down a coal mine( at the age of sixteen) to be greeted by ones elder sister having been on afternoons in a cotton factory but being home earlier as mill nearer than colliery , then being fed a bowl of boiled onions with a little butter and pepper!Nowt else! Yes ,real butter !

VM

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo[/ame]

 

[madasafish]

Thats a broad sweeping statement and you have no way of proving you are correct about that.

So sorry your misinformed.

The examples you quoted are presumably still eating - so NOT deprived... And having £1000s spent on you is not exactly deprivation.

The number of people dying from starvation in the UK is very few - and it's usually the very old.

I was quite specific about my definition. It stands until you come up with a better one.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

My prediction - in a week's time it will have all blown over, the media will have moved onto something else and it won't make a great deal of difference to public opinion about the government however much some would like it to.

I agree Storm that no one knows what the motivation of the rioters was, so I would suggest that the flurry of people expounding their pet theories should sit back, wait for the facts, then speak from a position of relative knowledge rather than leaping to wild conclusions.

And, for what it's worth, I wasn't specifically targeting you in my reply.

 

[Mike a]

This thread now reminds me of :-

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55fqjw2J1vI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55fqjw2J1vI[/ame]

Going no where but very entertaining although conversely the subject is very tragic.

 

[Storm™]

The examples you quoted are presumably still eating - so NOT deprived... And having £1000s spent on you is not exactly deprivation.

The number of people dying from starvation in the UK is very few - and it's usually the very old.

Stop twisting my words and putting your interpretation on it: I was quite specific about my definition. It stands until you come up with a better one.

 

[Storm™]

Agree Mike, its going nowhere and wont go anywhere when someone in charge suddenly says,

"no wait I think we have F£*&ed up. When we decided to deny rioters benefits if they were convicted of rioting it sounded like a good idea. Until they sued us for being punished more than those who arent on benefits who only got a criminal conviction. Where as we got criminal conviction, financially punished, and made homeless".

 

[victor meldrew]

Th'owd uns ert'best

VM

 

[jimbeekeeper]

Where as we got criminal conviction, financially punished, and made homeless".

I could not care less if they are!

Maybe then they will think and do something with their lives.

I have been to many true poor counties where there are NO benefits..what do they do? Anything they can to get by.

Tough is what I say. Harsh... but fair.

There might very well be a lot of knee-jerk reactions on the back of this, but in my view the hand gun ban following Dunblane was a major knee jerk reaction. How many gun crimes are there since that ban?

All it has done is stop you or I getting a gun, not the "gangsters"

 

[Storm™]

I could not care less if they are!

Maybe then they will think and do something with their lives.

I have been to many true poor counties where there are NO benefits..what do they do? Anything they can to get by.

Tough is what I say. Harsh... but fair.

Well I care if they get worse punishment than someone else who is convicted of the same crime, but they can complain they were punished worse. Because then they can sue. And then we will pay for their claim. And before you say that will never happen I would remind you of the burglars who sue for loss of earnings when the house they are robbing has a big bloke with a baseball bat in it.

Then of course there is these "best of British" as Cameron put it who chased off potential rioters on subsequent nights. Or legally vigilantes who chased for up to 2 miles those that were about to allegedly riot in their area. Unfortunately Cameron will be forced to punish these people also if someone should complain. Despite their admirable intentions.

Its going to be an interesting time, god knows what the press are going to do with it. They are being distinctly unimaginative at the moment. But Someone is going to come up with the points above. They usually do.

 

[jimbeekeeper]

Well I care .

Well you have them live at your house

 

[madasafish]

Well I care if they get worse punishment than someone else who is convicted of the same crime, but they can complain they were punished worse. Because then they can sue. .

Not many cases of riot in any one year... So your argument falls flat on its face..

I would imagine many are going to find they are made examples of "pour encourager les autres"..

Tough.. Anything that discourages mindless behaviour is to be applauded. I see most of those charged have been refused bail- which by itslef leaves a message..

 

[greatbritishhoney]

I've been thinking about this a lot this morning. I don't believe that removing benefits would improve the situation, not without a major shift in the way we think and deal with social problems in this country.
I do however think that the petition is useful as it will hopefully encourage politicians to have a more serious debate about how benefits need to be linked to outcomes.

I have not however changed my mind about "cuts" or "deprivation" being a feasible cause for these riots.
In my day job I work with disadvantedged people, many with mental health issues, on a daily basis. Some of them grasp the opportunities they are given with both hands and really make it work. Others can't be bothered.
There are many many schemes and programmes that offer help and hope to people on low income with low prospects. Human beings have free will and It is a personal choice whether they decide to act upon the opportunities given to them or whether to lob a brick through a shop window.
My wife works for an African charity helping people who really do have NOTHING - and they certainly have no state benefits. They manage to conduct their lives with dignity and respect for their communities despite extreme poverty and lack of opportunity.

I really believe that giving even a modicum of legitimacy to the rioters actions is a very dangerous road to go down. They are most certainly not to be pitied.

 

[SimonB]

Human beings have free will and It is a personal choice whether they decide to act upon the opportunities given to them or whether to lob a brick through a shop window.

In my opinion we need make more effort to educate people that life can be hard, or considered unfair, for many, but that with some effort and perseverance they can make a comfortable life for themselves.

However much like being a swot in school, it is becoming more and more prevalent that a work ethic is uncool, and that gaining respect amongst peers is achieved through gang membership and troublemaking.

By the way Storm, I didn't respond to your reply, somewhat because of your tone, but primarily because I got a little tired of your rhetoric and your apparent 'I know better than anyone else what the problem is' attitude, when in fact like everyone else, you can only postulate. You criticise others for making sweeping statements yet you state 'However I do understand why they are doing it'. Do you really understand the mindset of everyone involved? I very much doubt it.

 

[victor meldrew]

Hear! Hear!
VM

 

[For want of a better word]

Following this debate here and in the media... it seem that Mr C is on the slippery slope that will lead to his eventual downfall more quickly than the 18 months some predicted.

My Gran used to say "The road to Hell is full of good intentions"

My original answering post (OAP) asked what has all this got to do with bees and beekeeping?

No definitive answer as yet.... but if you starve, give poor housing and horrible conditions and poke the bees with a stick... eventually some will sting you!!!!

Latzerts Bros !

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Again, another prediction based on nothing.
Ugly as the riots have been they are not a serious national crisis that will result in a general election.
Governments throughout history have endured far worse and held on to power for many years.
You will notice the only people predicting the end of the coalition government are those that want it to happen.
It is known as wishful thinking.

 

[For want of a better word]

Again, another prediction based on nothing.
Ugly as the riots have been they are not a serious national crisis that will result in a general election.
Governments throughout history have endured far worse and held on to power for many years.
You will notice the only people predicting the end of the coalition government are those that want it to happen.
It is known as wishful thinking.

My Gran also used to say ..."If wishes were horses then beggars would ride"

​

 

[greatbritishhoney]

My Gran used to say "Silence is golden"

 

[madasafish]

I note the political comments lambasting the current PM.. They would carry more weight if they were also to comment on the effects of the last 13 years of a prior Government.

Since they don't , I take them as partisan points scoring and treat them with the derision that political point scoring deserves.

Especially one aimed at personalities...

A list of some of the deprived charged for offences in the riot is here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Laura-Johnson-Natasha-Reid-Stefan-Hoyle.html



The assumptions about why people riot which have been posted on here don't really fit the people involved...