e-petition to have convicted rioters lose their benefits..

[victor meldrew]

The assumptions about why people riot which have been posted on here don't really fit the people involved...

It's the mob mentality in essence
The veneer of civilisation is very thin .
Nature prompts the human animal to run with the perceived stronger pack , hence people with no particular axe to grind nor real grievance getting involved .
It happens with football supporters equally .
The brakes fail and instinct takes over .
Hard to swallow but fear rapidly reconnects those brakes !

VM IMHO

 

[greatbritishhoney]

It's the mob mentality in essence
The veneer of civilisation is very thin .
Nature prompts the human animal to run with the perceived stronger pack , hence people with no particular axe to grind nor real grievance getting involved .
It happens with football supporters equally .
The brakes fail and instinct takes over .
Hard to swallow but fear rapidly reconnects those brakes !

VM IMHO

The first sensible thing I have heard anyone say on this subject

 

[madasafish]

It's the mob mentality in essence
The veneer of civilisation is very thin .
VM IMHO

People need a reason not to go with the mob. Fear of jail is as good as any..

 

[Storm™]

Not many cases of riot in any one year... So your argument falls flat on its face..

I would imagine many are going to find they are made examples of "pour encourager les autres"..

Tough.. Anything that discourages mindless behaviour is to be applauded. I see most of those charged have been refused bail- which by itslef leaves a message..

You really are an awful person lol. "so your argument calls flat on it's face". No it doesn't. It was for starters an opinion. An opinion is based on experience and choice. And as such can only be from my perspective. I don't speak as fact. But as opinion of what could happen based on what I have seen before.

Getting back to you now, I understand that it is polite to attack an argument not the poster. Something you should bare in mind perhaps. And it's not permitted to write what you feel about another member. But I see in the rules of the forum that you are not restricted to thinking what you like. With this in mind I "think" your a tit. Harmless enough, a bit flabby and wobbly with little else to do but spout when poked. Regards.

 

[BKF Admin]

I have had a few reported posts from this thread.

I do understand its a very emotive issue but try and remember we are a bee forum not a political forum.

 

[Storm™]

I have had a few reported posts from this thread.

I do understand its a very emotive issue but try and remember we are a bee forum not a political forum.

That would be my fault. I stand by the assessment.

Reported on Sky News - Complaints about disparity in convictions is now an issue. As per a wild (apparently) theory I had. Judges not happy that they are being questioned. Barristers complaining that some have received no punishment other than cell time for two days, others receiving 6 months for stealing a bottle of water.

 

[For want of a better word]

My Gran used to say "Silence is golden"

Grans say that sort of thing........................................

 

[greatbritishhoney]

, others receiving 6 months for stealing a bottle of water.

Don't be too eager to use media reports to back up your arguments. I read that it was a "case" of water.

The fact is it not "just" stealing a case of water - it is being part of a mob smashing open a shop and helping itself to the contents. Lucky to get away with 6 months (out in 3) IMO.

 

[Storm™]

Don't be too eager to use media reports to back up your arguments. I read that it was a "case" of water.

The fact is it not "just" stealing a case of water - it is being part of a mob smashing open a shop and helping itself to the contents. Lucky to get away with 6 months (out in 3) IMO.

Hmmm, "don't", or did you mean "if it were me". It seems by your statement you are trying too hard to be correct. The result is smothering.

"Don't be too eager to use media reports to back up your arguments"

and then you use a media report to say why I may be wrong lol. Irony at its best.

But if I were also a pedantic person, I might suggest that "I read" implies print, print implies paper and paper is issued at just before midnight but printed much earlier, hence old news. The report I saw was an interview with a barrister outside the courts last night. From the horses mouth so to speak. I should have been more specific. The second instance that this was mentioned was today at around 2pm when a reporter stated it. Part of the report said "They don't really like it, appreciate it, when they are questioned about their judgements".

GBH, whilst I appreciate your fatherly tone, its not your place. I have a father and he is great. I myself am heading for my mid 40's. Discuss your theory and opinion by all means but please do not tell me what to do. It implies I have not thought things through and you are doing it for me. It implies in this instance that I am wrong when in fact I am not. It implies that you think the epicentre of the universe begins right here with you. I think we both know the answer to that.

In fact the reason I jumped on this thread, in fact any these days is that its the same old suspects being nasty. MOB mentality - yep seen that on various threads. In fact GBH were you not yourself a victim of this when trying to gather suppliers of local honey, or am I mistaken. If I am it certainly was someone. I am on many forums around the net. I can honestly say, that without exception some of the people on here are some of the most depraved I have ever had the misfortune to come into contact with. Superior, pedantic, patronising, arrogant, just plain mean. And whenever I come on here I see it in thread after thread. And this is a beekeeping forum. Talk about Niche forum. If this is a reflection of the human race in general its a disgrace. But the final straw was coming on this thread and seeing the stupid mob mentality of people allowed to vote spouting uninformed rubbish as fact. Unpleasant. HANG THEM, BURN THE WITCH - and you know these rioters do you. Personally. Pathetic, you should be ashamed. I doubt you would have the good grace to be ashamed. Spiteful hate filled vengeful people. I'm embarrassed for you. And not just on this thread.

Hivemaker, Oliver90 and Mark and a few others are great. You should just have a forum with you on it. "Some" of the others on here. . . really tho.

 

[xgeordie]

I can honestly say, that without exception some of the people on here are some of the most depraved I have ever had the misfortune to come into contact with. Superior, pedantic, patronising, arrogant, just plain mean. And whenever I come on here I see it in thread after thread. And this is a beekeeping forum. Talk about Niche forum. If this is a reflection of the human race in general its a disgrace. But the final straw was coming on this thread and seeing the stupid mob mentality of people allowed to vote spouting uninformed rubbish as fact. Unpleasant. HANG THEM, BURN THE WITCH - and you know these rioters do you. Personally. Pathetic, you should be ashamed. I doubt you would have the good grace to be ashamed. Spiteful hate filled vengeful people. I'm embarrassed for you. And not just on this thread.
.

Why don't you bugger off somewhere else then?

 

[BKF Admin]

Can members refrain from posting in this thread while I go get a few bags of popcorn.

Thanks

 

[jimbeekeeper]

My original answering post (OAP) asked what has all this got to do with bees and beekeeping?

No definitive answer as yet....

Did you not read posts 3 - 7?

As they quite clearly state,

"off topic chat Chat about anything and everything not connected to Bees and Beekeeping"

PS Hows your wife?

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=149751#post149751

 

[victor meldrew]

Can members refrain from posting in this thread while I go get a few bags of popcorn.

Thanks

Can I have an ice cream pretty please ?

VM

 

[jimbeekeeper]

Just go steal on VM, its OK to do it

One down...the rest will go.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...larkes-family-evicted-Wandsworth-Council.html

 

[For want of a better word]

PS Hows your wife?


Fine....Bit tired after servicing the tractors and the Combine Harvesters... amazing how she can get a tractor tire off with just a pair of tyre levers !!!

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Hmmm, "don't", or did you mean "if it were me". It seems by your statement you are trying too hard to be correct. The result is smothering.

"Don't be too eager to use media reports to back up your arguments"

and then you use a media report to say why I may be wrong lol. Irony at its best.



.

It's really simple. I used an example of a separate media report to illustrate the fact that media reports are generally unreliable. If you believe one above all others you are likely to occaisonally get the wrong end of the stick.
It's not ironic in any way.

You make too many other points for me to answer without boring everybody to death, but I'll say one thing - I couldn't care less whether you like my tone or my opinons or whether you find them smothering. This is a discussion forum, and if you get upset by someone suggesting that you should check your facts before making definitive statements then you are in the wrong place.
I'm not trying to be "fatherly" - I'm trying to make a very simple point that I would apply as equally to you as to anyone taking the hang em and flog approach - the point is coming up conclusions based on half the facts is dangerous.
I don't think the universe revolves around me but I know a fair bit about politics and philosophy and I can spot someone with a closed mind trying to make sketchy facts fit their own personal political theories a mile away.


Edit: Sorry to rant, but I felt you were veering towards getting personal (again). We're having a debate - you may not like my debating style but don't make assumptions about me. Thanks.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Dear Storm,

Thanks for the charming PM you have just sent me. It confirms everything I thought about you (and a lot more).
You really do possess some serious intellect and wit. I mean, who else could come up with the line...
"You clearly are an egotistical pompous closed minded self believing puffed up ornamental cabbage"
The irony being that I have spent the entire thread trying to persuade you to keep an open mind about the causes of the riots and the potential solutions.

And as for your guess that I much be a teacher (and I won't embarrass you by revealing the insults you hurled at the teaching profession), no - I am not a teacher. I am a community worker in a deprived area of mid-wales and I work with disadvantdged people everyday. I spend my time helping people with little hope to regain their self-esteem and self-confidence and to get back into work.

Anyway, so call off the IPCC investigation, call off the Commons Home Affairs Select Committee investigation - Storm already knows the causes of the riots.

And sack all the magistrates and judges - Storm knows better than them what an appropriate sentence is for looting.

Sack the police - let Storm manage the response to the riots - he's the expert.

Dissolve parliament - no point debating anything when Storm already has all the answers.

Oh, and call off the next general election - Storm already knows the result.

Infact, let's all just admit we know nothing and start revolving around Storm in our perpetual state of ornamental cabbagedom.

 

[Drew]

Infact, let's all just admit we know nothing and start revolving around Storm in our perpetual state of ornamental cabbagedom.

GBH - I'll have you know that I am a useful cabbage

 

[For want of a better word]

The problem with opening the window and looking out towards the engine to see where one is going, is that a smut will surely hit you in the eye and blind you to the fact that a tunnel is coming that is going to knock your head off!

Better then to alight at the next station and catch another train and make sure it is going to take you to the correct and chosen destination?

I think many of us great unwashed electorate have realised by now we have got on the wrong train, and must wait until we reach a station to alight, and hope the driver does not completely loose control on the next bend and we end up in the inevitable train wreck!

I forget the politician who I am trying to quote, could have been Bevan or Foot, a very long time since I studied politics at Uni!!!

History repeats itself..............

Make my words as sweet as honey for tomorrow I may need to eat them !

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Just to try to get back on track with this thread....
I was interested to hear Iain Duncan-Smith's analysis of the initial causes of the riots on the Channel 4 debate last Friday.
I can't remember it word for word but it went something like....there was an initial small outbreak of violence towards the end of the Mark Duggan protest. Several local gangs got wind of the trouble and decided to capitalise upon it. They agreed to work together to start fires and cause minor disturbances in certain areas so as to draw police resources to those areas, meanwhile they would go and loot other areas. The riots escalted from here as others were drawn into the violence and looting.

Whatever you think of that analysis it raises one question - how will the removal of benefits affect gang culture?
My guess is that it won't, because as far as I'm aware gang culture is generally focussed around crime and, therefore, benefits are not a major part of their income.
Removing benefits of those non gang members caught up in the trouble may prove to be counter productive but could also equally provide some kind of deterrent.
Who knows?