Honey label petition

[Plastics]

Be careful what you wish for - sometimes best to let sleeping dogs lie

Never underestimate the ability of government to generate ever more restrictions

Remember : “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help”

In no way will altering what already exists benefit small producers/hobbyists

 

[roche]

I've signed it and we all should - it may not be perfect but the reality is that there is a benefit to British Beekeepers ... if you look at the detail of the petition on the Goverment website it makes it pretty clear even if the headline is a bit vague.

"Fully review the honey market and Honey Regulations, to review evidence of honey fraud within the honey market, and reform regulations and arrangements for enforcement, to prevent future fraud.

More details
Honey is adulterated for economic gain on an industrial scale across the globe. We believe current measures to ensure authenticity of honey are insufficient. Public health, free market, livelihoods, food security, consumer confidence and bee health issues are all at risk.

Current regulations, testing and enforcement are inadequate to protect and inform consumers, and there is a need for an urgent comprehensive review in order to detect honey fraud."

Nothing much to hate there is there ? ... Get on and sign it and encourage others to sign as well ... if it doesn't get 100k signatures nothing happens.

They do not quote any numbers or facts to back up their claims. Whilst there might be anecdotal evidence and perhaps a few court cases(?) there is a severe lack of substance... I would be more inclined to support an education campaign from the BFA.

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

I've signed it. I think it's better than doing nothing. I'm not sure to make of the Honey Regulations requirement that the country of origin be stated on the label, and the present state of affairs on much supermarket honey ('A blend of EU and non-EU honeys' - which gives no info about the country of origin).

I agree with @pargyle that the full statement on the BBKA website gives a clearer picture about what the petition is about.

 

[Pembroke]

Thanks pargyle (sorry, I only see your name as a reference). I was about to post the details, which you would all have seen had you looked further, but you beat me to it. If you have nothing to hide, which I am sure none of you have, what is there to lose? We need to bring this problem to the fore. We know scams go on, but most of the public don't and will continue to buy the cheap supermarket 'stuff.'

The key then isn't a petition to the government, the key is as it has always been, marketing and publicity.

Telling the general public about how beekeepers in this country care for their bees, how their welfare comes first, the honey harvested is a surplus, not every last drop as may be the case elsewhere and that's why locally produced honey is at a premium to that you can buy in a super market.

Another approach would be the alien-ness of honey from abroad. I'm sure I'll get corrected if I'm wrong but does AMM exist in China? If not then any Chinese honey will not only be local bees to that country but also local flora (another reason why it's filtered perhaps?).

 

[Moobee]

If they could make honey suppliers state the non EU countries of origin, that would go a long way to deterring purchases by a lot of consumers.

 

[TomH]

It might be "interesting" to put something along the lines of "Contains no syrup and 100% produced by honey bees" on the label

James

Any chance we run the risk that anyone that feeds might end up with a trace amount of syrup in their honey supers?

If you've got a BB still with syrup in, particularly if it's uncapped won't the bees move some of it up when you put your supers on? I guess you're not looking at large scale honey dilution, but is it within a detectable range? Surely then the majority of us wouldn't be able to say 'no syrup' anyway...

 

[user 20297]

Any chance we run the risk that anyone that feeds might end up with a trace amount of syrup in their honey supers?

If you've got a BB still with syrup in, particularly if it's uncapped won't the bees move some of it up when you put your supers on? I guess you're not looking at large scale honey dilution, but is it within a detectable range? Surely then the majority of us wouldn't be able to say 'no syrup' anyway...

We should already be able to have confidence that large suppliers of honey have shown due diligence in sourcing their honey. The world being what it is, no amount of legislation, either existing or brought about by petitioning, can ever guarantee that no adulteration has occurred at some point in the supply chain.
Although I hope that I'm correct in trusting that almost all amateur beekeepers will do everything possible to avoid sugar contamination of honey, purchasers need to trust us as they trust commercial honey bottlers.
We should be careful about what we wish for; when applied to amateur honey production, certificates of provenance and purity would be a killer to our doorstep trading.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

"oooh, I think some people are questioning the relevance of the BBKA and it's part in representing UK hobby beekeepers - quick, let's churn out another irrelevant petition; that should keep them happy for another annual subscription"

 

[Redcap]

I'm amazed at just how much honey is imported into the country, and even more so that we only produce just 10% of the home market. This article published in The Guardian last year explains the issues quite clearly I think.

 

[ApiarIAN]

I'm amazed at just how much honey is imported into the country, and even more so that we only produce just 10% of the home market. This article published in The Guardian last year explains the issues quite clearly I think.

I've just read that Guardian article and what baffles me most is how can a jar of blended honey from either Non EU sources or a mix of Chinese and Vietnamese sources be "fully traceable back to the beekeeper" as quoted by Sainsbury and Asda alike??? I'd welcome the opportunity to be more informed on this from those more knowledgable on these matters.

 

[JamezF]

I've just read that Guardian article and what baffles me most is how can a jar of blended honey from either Non EU sources or a mix of Chinese and Vietnamese sources be "fully traceable back to the beekeeper" as quoted by Sainsbury and Asda alike??? I'd welcome the opportunity to be more informed on this from those more knowledgable on these matters.

The cynic in me suggests that the likes of Sainsbury's or Asda perhaps have a requirement in their supply contract that the honey be "fully traceable back to the beekeeper" and the supplier claims that they can do so. The buyer is then careful not to ask any questions and if they can't avoid it then the supplier will just make stuff up (or have it made up already) and everyone down the chain will agree because they all know what's good for them.

James

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

But in the end, does it matter? regardless of this, or any other petition. The people who buy that honey, will still buy cheap supermarket honey, they don't want our type of honey and never will. Tresco, Waitberry's, whatever could sell their honey for a penny a pot but it would make no impact whatsoever on the sales of our 'proper' honey. It's about time people stop getting their knickers in a twist and realise that there are two types of people out there. Those that like/buy cheap sugary honey and those that don't. No amount of of legislation will force either to change their shopping habits.
This is just more unnecessary flannel from the usual suspects

 

[PeaBee]

The current regulation work so don't see why (other than for the reason JBM says) we need a petition. for changing them. This case shows that where it is established that the law has been broken the regulations are fit for purpose and people get prosecuted(Honey scam couple fined). What is not in place is the number enforcement officers (in my county the number of Trading Standards officers dropped by nearly 70% over the last 15 years and Env health have shrunk too) and also there is no test that has proven reliable at detecting sugar syrup adulteration.
And what do they hope to achieve? price rises across the honey retail? The price of budget honey (even if it is syrup) does not affect the price of hobbyists and small scale bee farmers like us sell honey at. Or do they think that putting China as country of origin will make someone not buy budget honey and pay you or me £5 more for a jar of the good stuff.
Are BBKA members struggling to sell honey because of imports?
Lets face it home produced honey is less than 10% of the market, of that a big chunk will be produced by a few of the big players like ITLD and then other smaller BFA members so the BBKA represents maybe less 5% off of the honey placed on the market. Wonder if they have engaged with other groups in the sector like the BFA and the Honey Association? Interesting to see if anything comes of the petition but the potential for an own goal and making it harder for the hobby beekeeper should not be ignored, anyone fancy sending of samples of honey from a bucket purchased from a mate of for testing?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Are BBKA members struggling to sell honey because of imports?

Most of the buggers are selling it at prices so low that importers of cheap Chinese honey are thinking of starting a petition actually.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Nothing much to hate there is there ? ... Get on and sign it and encourage others to sign as well ... if it doesn't get 100k signatures nothing happens.

What actually happens with these petitions? Does the content get debated in the house or is it reviewed by a committee somewhere?

 

[Erichalfbee]

What is not in place is the number enforcement officers (in my county the number of Trading Standards officers dropped by nearly 70% over the last 15 years and Env health have shrunk too) and also there is no test that has proven reliable at detecting sugar syrup adulteration.

This was exactly my experience
I sent a jar from Sainsbury to my local TS. It was tested and found to be adulterated but the reply I got ( TS is a husband of a fellow BKA member) was that there was no reliable test that could not and would not be challenged by a supermarket with much legal and financial clout. No prosecution would proceed as a result.

 

[Moobee]

The current regulation work so don't see why (other than for the reason JBM says) we need a petition. for changing them. This case shows that where it is established that the law has been broken the regulations are fit for purpose and people get prosecuted(Honey scam couple fined). What is not in place is the number enforcement officers (in my county the number of Trading Standards officers dropped by nearly 70% over the last 15 years and Env health have shrunk too) and also there is no test that has proven reliable at detecting sugar syrup adulteration.
And what do they hope to achieve? price rises across the honey retail? The price of budget honey (even if it is syrup) does not affect the price of hobbyists and small scale bee farmers like us sell honey at. Or do they think that putting China as country of origin will make someone not buy budget honey and pay you or me £5 more for a jar of the good stuff.
Are BBKA members struggling to sell honey because of imports?
Lets face it home produced honey is less than 10% of the market, of that a big chunk will be produced by a few of the big players like ITLD and then other smaller BFA members so the BBKA represents maybe less 5% off of the honey placed on the market. Wonder if they have engaged with other groups in the sector like the BFA and the Honey Association? Interesting to see if anything comes of the petition but the potential for an own goal and making it harder for the hobby beekeeper should not be ignored, anyone fancy sending of samples of honey from a bucket purchased from a mate of for testing?

It’s not about us struggling to sell honey because of imports, it’s the value of our product being downgraded by cheap sh*tty syrup water being sold as honey in supermarkets and the unsuspecting public thinking that’s what actual honey tastes like.
Almost every day I tell someone that their 99p jar of ‘honey’ is not the real deal.

 

[Ian123]

I really can’t see the need for another in all likelihood failed petition, the bbka couldn’t get barely half the membership to sign up for a flagship policy on no imports! (I wonder if that’s going to be mentioned at the next AGM)As a representative body they already have an in with Defra so why not use it! Cheap imports are not the markets for the vast majority of UK beekeepers, their energy would be better spent with friendly press educating the public and informing them. Then they could also do the same with some of the membership who sell at silly prices.

 

[Ian123]

It’s not about us struggling to sell honey because of imports, it’s the value of our product being downgraded by cheap sh*tty syrup water being sold as honey in supermarkets and the unsuspecting public thinking that’s what actual honey tastes like.
Almost every day I tell someone that their 99p jar of ‘honey’ is not the real deal.

The sale of a 99p jar of crap does not down grade the value of your quality product. Or at least you shouldn’t even be in the same field. Take Manuka for instance they are literally selling morethan is produced at 10-20 times that price.

 

[Erichalfbee]

it’s the value of our product being downgraded by cheap sh*tty syrup water being sold as honey in supermarkets

But it’s not.
The people who buy my honey don’t buy supermarket honey in the first place.
How many hobby keepers don’t manage to sell all their honey anyway?
There are two distinct markets here aren’t there?