Laurence Edwards' petition to allow the use of the word "Raw" to describe unheated, non-pressure filtered honey.

[user 20297]

I've just watched Laurence's promotion of the use of this term. He's been specifically prevented from using the word on his labels after being reported for it. I feel that he puts forward a convincing argument and will sign the petition once it has been approved.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/603996/moderation-info

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes just been having a conversation with him. Just goes to show some of us get away with putting raw on our labels, others don’t

 

[pargyle]

I've just watched Laurence's promotion of the use of this term. He's been specifically prevented from using the word on his labels after being reported for it. I feel that he puts forward a convincing argument and will sign the petition once it has been approved.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/603996/moderation-info

Well ... I'm with Laurence on this issue ... it's a powerful marketing word identifying a product that my customers want ... Trading standards ridiculous in this instance.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well ... I'm with Laurence on this issue ... it's a powerful marketing word identifying a product that my customers want ... Trading standards ridiculous in this instance.

Yep!

 

[Into the lions den]

Despite my connections there I do NOT support this. It is frequently used as a negative marketing tool against others who do NOT make the claim...and it is largely meaningless.

It is indeed a powerful marketing word *to some*....but do ANY of us sell cooked honey? The implication is that those of us who stick strictly to actual facts about our product are actually selling something inferior.......which almost without exception we are not.

Also does not matter if your honey is pressure filtered or not...its the mesh size you are putting it through that matters...some gravity filter through finer meshes than some pressure systems....and the serious strippers of everything, like the diatomaceous earth filtering that denature the product deliberately rendering it bland, are the preserve of truly industrial packers of very cheap mass market honey.

Also..try filtering ling heather with no heat and/or no pressure...................

 

[Finman]

Few days ago I looked from dictionary, what does mean " superfood ". Answer was, it is marketing term.

If we look potato 200 years ago, it was superfood, because its nutrition value was in my country 3-4 fold compared to small turnips.
But in winter had plenty of C-vitamin and it was salad type plant.

 

[Finman]

Not very superfood but it is raw.

21 Kcal energy /100 g.
In potato 75 Kcal.

 

[pargyle]

Despite my connections there I do NOT support this. It is frequently used as a negative marketing tool against others who do NOT make the claim...and it is largely meaningless.

It is indeed a powerful marketing word *to some*....but do ANY of us sell cooked honey? The implication is that those of us who stick strictly to actual facts about our product are actually selling something inferior.......which almost without exception we are not.

Also does not matter if your honey is pressure filtered or not...its the mesh size you are putting it through that matters...some gravity filter through finer meshes than some pressure systems....and the serious strippers of everything, like the diatomaceous earth filtering that denature the product deliberately rendering it bland, are the preserve of truly industrial packers of very cheap mass market honey.

Also..try filtering ling heather with no heat and/or no pressure...................

Sorry Murray, there's never been anything that I would have disagreed with you in the past but... At present there is nothing that distinguishes the cheap mass market honey (and I include many branded products whose small print states a blend of EU an Non-EU honeys) from those whose honey is directly produced and marketed in the UK without the need for pasteurisation, blending or overt processing.

Raw is a term that the consumer has inflicted on the market and it is now being denigrated by inferior products (many from abroad) that are claiming to be raw and frankly legislation may be required to prevent these products from misleading the market.

I see it as in no way detracting from anyone's honey being sold - as long as that honey is truly raw (ie: as from hive to jar without overt heating or filtration to the point where all the sub-micron particles are removed) there is no reason why anyone's honey cannot be presented as raw. It's a positive marketing premise not a negative one to be used against competition - it's a term that behoves a product that is as near to what it was when the bees stored it as is possible in a jar.

If you are averse to the term raw - what have you in your marketing box that provides the same designation that discerning customers seek ? Honey ?

 

[Sanntos]

In Sweden it is not allowed to market your honey as "pure" or with similar words connected to the word honey. If it is honey it is pure, authentic, real, genuine and so on. One drop of lemon in the honey and you can't call it "Honey".

 

[Boston Bees]

I took the liberty of starting a poll to establish whether there's a clear forum view

Poll: Should it be legal to use the word "Raw" on labels to describe unheated, non-pressure filtered honey | Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum (beekeepingforum.co.uk)

 

[mbc]

I used to do a market next to a guy who raised free range wild boar x pigs which was lovely flavoursome meat, anyway he'd say the customer is always right and even if they came and asked him for a nice beef joint from his clearly advertised pork stall he'd sell them a joint of pork with a cheerful smile.
Nevertheless gits who've read a few words from some trendy foodie and think they know all about honey when they come to my stall asking if its raw irritate the tits off me.
Beekeepers who think they've invented doing as little as possible to their honey and think it's clever marketing it as raw, likewise.

 

[Curly green finger's]

I agree with Murray on this one, most will at some point have to warm there honey or not, if we use the term raw to me that would indicate that it hasn't been warmed through?

 

[Erichalfbee]

I took the liberty of starting a poll to establish whether there's a clear forum view

Poll: Should it be legal to use the word "Raw" on labels to describe unheated, non-pressure filtered honey | Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum (beekeepingforum.co.uk)

I've put a ten day limit on the poll. Let me know if you want it extended

 

[Erichalfbee]

I agree with Murray on this one, most will at some point have to warm there honey or not, if we use the term raw to me that would indicate that it hasn't been warmed through?

Perhaps we should all just put "unpasteurised" on our labels.
I think somewhere in one of Enrico's threads somebody made a list of the descriptions that could go on our labels

 

[Patrick1]

If you use “Raw” on your honey today as a marketing gimmick what are you going to use in 5 years’ time to describe the uniqueness of the product, start using hyperboles to describe honey and the product will suffer, just look at Trump is that how we want honey to be regarded.

The fake honeys are shown up by the reverse label.

 

[polymath]

I have had long conversations with Trading Standards on this. Raw is not allowed as the only definition that can be applied is he opposite of cooked and that is found in the Defra guidelines. As honey is never cooked it cannot be Raw. However, when I highlighted someone using it (major supplier) they said that it is not worth their effort in taking it up and refused to take any action. I have in writing from my local trading standards (surrey) i can use Pure, but it varies by region and how they feel like enforcing things. Happy to send anyone in Surrey a copy of the letter if they want.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I've put a ten day limit on the poll. Let me know if you want it extended

Maybe there should have been a third option "doesn't matter to me"

 

[Wilco]

Agree with the hyperbole comment and Curly's point is a logical one. Plus this resonates with me:

Nevertheless gits who've read a few words from some trendy foodie and think they know all about honey when they come to my stall asking if its raw irritate the tits off me.
Beekeepers who think they've invented doing as little as possible to their honey and think it's clever marketing it as raw, likewise.

 

[user 20297]

I have had long conversations with Trading Standards on this. Raw is not allowed as the only definition that can be applied is he opposite of cooked and that is found in the Defra guidelines. As honey is never cooked it cannot be Raw. However, when I highlighted someone using it (major supplier) they said that it is not worth their effort in taking it up and refused to take any action. I have in writing from my local trading standards (surrey) i can use Pure, but it varies by region and how they feel like enforcing things. Happy to send anyone in Surrey a copy of the letter if they want.

That's an interesting point. But what Laurence is saying is that "The Public" have come to perceive "Raw" to have the meaning of home-produced honey, straight from the hive to the jar. People search out "Raw" honey and many imported brands, jarred in other countries, either under their own or under no regulations, will continue to state "raw". So, I guess he's asking us to re-assess that meaning of the word as it pertains to honey.

 

[Boston Bees]

I've put a ten day limit on the poll. Let me know if you want it extended

Thanks. 10 days will be more than enough I suspect.