Laurence Edwards' petition to allow the use of the word "Raw" to describe unheated, non-pressure filtered honey.

[Patrick1]

But how many people buying honey look at the back label ? In five years time, if all beekeepers got behind it - we could have a standard set for 'raw' honey that would preclude the use of the term when the honey has been pasteurised and fine filtered ... Organic is strictly controlled - rather than ban the word raw - set a standard.

Interesting point of view, however, when was the last time beekeepers worked together to achieve anything.

 

[pargyle]

Interesting point of view, however, when was the last time beekeepers worked together to achieve anything.

You are spot on there Patrick ... getting beekeepers to agree on ANYTHING is like pushing water uphill ! Sadly, usually to our collective detriment !!!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It is sad, and wrong that he has been picked on when others aren't.

He's not the only one that's been 'picked on' he's just the kind of person to make as much noise as possible (as we know) beekeepers in most counties in Wales have been told the same. I was at a workshop a few years ago held by 'Cywain' (Welsh for 'Harvest' a Welsh government initiative set up to help and promote small food producers, and which has a specific Honey cluster) One talk was given by by an EHO/TSO and he was adamant on the subject of 'raw' he also advised great caution on the use of the word 'pure' (don't we all boast the fact that it's not as it is bursting with good things like pollen?) but advised that 'natural' was a fine and sensible word to use

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

But how many people buying honey look at the back label

Probably all the ones that using words like 'raw' would influence

 

[enrico]

He's not the only one that's been 'picked on' he's just the kind of person to make as much noise as possible (as we know) beekeepers in most counties in Wales have been told the same. I was at a workshop a few years ago held by 'Cywain' (Welsh for 'Harvest' a Welsh government initiative set up to help and promote small food producers, and which has a specific Honey cluster) One talk was given by by an EHO/TSO and he was adamant on the subject of 'raw' he also advised great caution on the use of the word 'pure' (don't we all boast the fact that it's not as it is bursting with good things like pollen?) but advised that 'natural' was a fine and sensible word to use

It depends if you are considering the wording as a description or a fact I suppose! I believe it is a fact that my honey is raw. I am not describing it, I am stating it. It IS raw. Therefore I feel fully justified in telling others the same on my label.

 

[Boston Bees]

He's not the only one that's been 'picked on' he's just the kind of person to make as much noise as possible (as we know) beekeepers in most counties in Wales have been told the same. I was at a workshop a few years ago held by 'Cywain' (Welsh for 'Harvest' a Welsh government initiative set up to help and promote small food producers, and which has a specific Honey cluster) One talk was given by by an EHO/TSO and he was adamant on the subject of 'raw' he also advised great caution on the use of the word 'pure' (don't we all boast the fact that it's not as it is bursting with good things like pollen?) but advised that 'natural' was a fine and sensible word to use

Fair enough. He's a good marketer, and this campaign is no exception.

 

[Frizzaldo]

Rather than picking an arbitrary vague word (raw or natural) a term should be selected that cannot be used by the cheap supermarket blended honeys (from china or wherever)
yes, it would require beekeepers working together to adopt the term and educate customers and might take a few years.

As a first stab:
‘Single region non blended UK beekeepers honey’

it doesn’t roll off the tongue and appreciate blended my need further definition if honey from multiple apiaries is considered blended.

another alternative would be to have a UK beekeepers label but that would take more of that coordination to set up.

 

[mbc]

But these 'gits' that you are talking about are exactly the sort of discerning customers you WANT. Regardless of their motives (trendy or not as the case may be) they are the people who are seeking out a product that, in their perception, is unprocessed and is more or less as the bees made it. They will pay a premium for the product that meets their aspirations. They should not irritate you - you should welcome them with open arms.

As for beekeepers who 'do very little' to their honey .. well, the reality is that all you have to do with most honey is filter it lightly and warm it gently if it is too thick to pour and jar it up as required. I see nothing wrong with that . I do find that you sometimes see really rubbish looking honey for sale in markets and smaller retail outlets - but, regardless of the label you put on such honey - it won't sell even whatever you describe it as !

Yeah, I thought it was a given that all the irritation was internal, externally "game face" persists.
Calling brainwashed numpties who cannot differentiate a fad from across the Atlantic from real life dietary preferences "discerning" is a bit of a stretch imho too

 

[Sanntos]

No ... that's why it's so hard in the UK to gain any certification for 'organic honey' ... it's not just the garden half a mile down the road .. bees will fly several kilometres for high value forage so draw a 5 km circle on any area of the UK and guarantee that the area within it is totally organic ... not many places that would meet the criteria.

Isn't the word "organic" mostly a way to capitalize on beekeepers and customers. It is very expensive to get a certification, and to keep it, and yet we all know that the bees fly where they want. Most small beekeepers honey is exactly as much organic as organic honey, if not more, because an organic beekeeper here at least must use sugar from Indonesia instead of sugar from nearby, because only Indonesia produces organic sugar in high quantities. But the transport is of left out of the equation. And also no one seem to care about the forests that once existed where the sugar plants now are.

 

[Sanntos]

..
another alternative would be to have a UK beekeepers label but that would take more of that coordination to set up.

I believe the Danish beekeepers has had a long time success doing just that. The public recognize that label, and are paying extra for it.

 

[Anduril]

Rather than picking an arbitrary vague word (raw or natural) a term should be selected that cannot be used by the cheap supermarket blended honeys (from china or wherever)
yes, it would require beekeepers working together to adopt the term and educate customers and might take a few years.

As a first stab:
‘Single region non blended UK beekeepers honey’

it doesn’t roll off the tongue and appreciate blended my need further definition if honey from multiple apiaries is considered blended.

another alternative would be to have a UK beekeepers label but that would take more of that coordination to set up.

One possibility could be Extra Virgin Honey, then if heated and not pasteurised, Virgin Honey.
Or we all change to Flow hives and call it Flow Hive Honey, everyone knows this is honey untouched by human hands.

 

[Frazer Munro]

I would be interested to hear what are the performance measures of Trading Standards and who does one speak to about their (perverse?) decision making?
Ive been through the same issue with Liquered Heather Honey.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Not sure 10 days will be enough.........

Why. You’ll still be able to comment just not vote.
Comments are much more valuable than votes anyway

 

[Wilco]

But these 'gits' that you are talking about are exactly the sort of discerning customers you WANT. Regardless of their motives (trendy or not as the case may be) they are the people who are seeking out a product that, in their perception, is unprocessed and is more or less as the bees made it. They will pay a premium for the product that meets their aspirations. They should not irritate you - you should welcome them with open arms.

As for beekeepers who 'do very little' to their honey .. well, the reality is that all you have to do with most honey is filter it lightly and warm it gently if it is too thick to pour and jar it up as required. I see nothing wrong with that . I do find that you sometimes see really rubbish looking honey for sale in markets and smaller retail outlets - but, regardless of the label you put on such honey - it won't sell even whatever you describe it as !

Discerning: 'having or showing good judgement.'

Agree with a lot of this post but would not call people asking for 'raw' honey discerning... As it appeals to my cantankerous side, I'm leaning more towards @mbc's description :

Calling brainwashed numpties who cannot differentiate a fad from across the Atlantic from real life dietary preferences "discerning" is a bit of a stretch imho too

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Ive been through the same issue with Liquered Heather Honey.

Well if it's been mucked about with things like alcohol, then it's plainly not honey so the food safety, rather than honey regulations apply - well done Trading Standards

 

[Erichalfbee]

But can you call it heather honey with whisky?

 

[Finman]

One possibility could be Extra Virgin Honey, then if heated and not pasteurised, Virgin Honey.
Or we all change to Flow hives and call it Flow Hive Honey, everyone knows this is honey untouched by human hands.

If you want to play such game. Customers find out soon, that it is normal honey.
.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

But can you call it heather honey with whisky?

again, you still have to comply with food preparation safety regulations rather than the honey ones - there may also be licencing and Excise regulations to consider

 

[Sanntos]

...Or we all change to Flow hives and call it Flow Hive Honey, everyone knows this is honey untouched by human hands.

I don't get it, why would any beekeeper, flow hive or not, touch the honey? It's very sticky.

 

[user 20297]

I find this sad as TS obviously thought it was " worth their effort" to confront BMH.

Apparently "another beekeeper" reported Laurence; out of discretion and courtesy he's obviously keeping some background information out of this.