Laurence Edwards' petition to allow the use of the word "Raw" to describe unheated, non-pressure filtered honey.

[user 20297]

There are so many good and valid observations that have been made regardless of whether or not you support the idea. However I would firstly address the elephant in the room.
The government via trading standards officers plainly does not/ will not enforce the law. The import of products labelled contrary to those laws is allowed or has a blind eye turned towards them seemingly because of money. In my eyes the government and trading standards are guilty of a dereliction of duty and blatant deliberate failure to uphold its/their own regulations and law. This to me is more than a petition issue, its about discriminatory and biased application of rules/laws in favour of anyone who has enough clout/money, trading standards even say as much. I call that corruption which bizarrely many local officials don't seem to care about.
EDIT - Why do we leave this unchallenged, both locally and nationally - whilst thats rhetorical and I know the answer its a question major producers might want to address.

You don't even need to be an expert at Googling to discover that UK-based companies are using the marketing power of the label "Raw" to sell overpriced product....eg:
https://www.therawhoneyshop.com/col...15dKO1TGGwjiNeP_DnhJMdXz5-SdTiJQaAinhEALw_wcB

 

[user 20297]

He's not the only one that's been 'picked on' he's just the kind of person to make as much noise as possible (as we know) beekeepers in most counties in Wales have been told the same. I was at a workshop a few years ago held by 'Cywain' (Welsh for 'Harvest' a Welsh government initiative set up to help and promote small food producers, and which has a specific Honey cluster) One talk was given by by an EHO/TSO and he was adamant on the subject of 'raw' he also advised great caution on the use of the word 'pure' (don't we all boast the fact that it's not as it is bursting with good things like pollen?) but advised that 'natural' was a fine and sensible word to use

...loads of that available here......obviously just as good as any honey marketed by Laurence or any of the rest of us....
https://www.made-in-china.com/products-search/hot-china-products/Natural_Honey.html

 

[user 20297]

One possibility could be Extra Virgin Honey, then if heated and not pasteurised, Virgin Honey.
Or we all change to Flow hives and call it Flow Hive Honey, everyone knows this is honey untouched by human hands.

But then we would still end up back at a similar starting point because all and sundry would cotton on to that phrase and add it to their labels and marketing.

 

[Finman]

Nowadays you can bluff with your honey as much as you mind. No one can stop you. But you must love the art of bluffing. I am too lazy to it.

Food marketing is full of bluff nowadays. And it has been at least 50 years.

 

[Finman]

Virgin honey. Yes all workers are virgins. True .
The most best selling jar in Finland has been Queen Honey.

 

[Murox]

You don't even need to be an expert at Googling to discover that UK-based companies are using the marketing power of the label "Raw" to sell overpriced product....eg:

National Trading Standards is supposed to deliver national and regional consumer protection enforcement. Its Board is made up of senior and experienced heads of local government trading standards from around England and Wales with an independent Chair. Its purpose is to protect consumers and safeguard legitimate businesses by tackling serious national and regional consumer protection issues and organised criminality and protecting food supplies by ensuring the animal feed chain is safe.

Demonstrably it has been and is failing to live up to its brief as far as food stuffs is concerned.

 

[Patrick1]

But then we would still end up back at a simlar starting point because all and sundry would cotton on to that phrase and add it to their labels and marketing.

After "Raw" and Extra virgin honey, what next !!!

 

[Patrick1]

Why not have a movement like red tractor! Obviously a bee logo with a tag line of one or two words ?

 

[Poly Hive]

In good conscience I cannot sign the petition as I warm my honey, and realistically I imagine that anyone in range of OSR has to warm it to filter it.

I agree that the word has emotional tones but probably the angle for us is to write to the food mags and point out that they are being used and misled almost subliminally.

PH

 

[user 20297]

Interesting point of view, however, when was the last time beekeepers worked together to achieve anything.

Here's the opportunity. I suspect that most UK beekeepers would benefit from petitioning together for a clear definition of the word and hence the protected use of it as it applies to the marketing of honey; a simple and easily understood word which is already accepted as a colloquial descriptor for "local", "natural", home-produced", "artisan", "unmodified" honey.

It's odd that beekeepers seem to be so resistant to gaining this benefit. Even if you don't care for it from a financial point of view, the implied plaudit and kudos of legal recognition that your honey stands out from the crowd seems like something we should be keen to achieve.

 

[user 20297]

After "Raw" and Extra virgin honey, what next !!!

We'll need bigger labels made from raw paper.........an opportunity for someone with excellent business acumen? ...PS.....as you can see....paper made from "natural" plants.
https://rawthentic.com/

 

[Gilberdyke John]

This whole discussion has become like one of the long debates among monks and theologians of the middle ages about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. I suppose it helps to pass the time while we aren't up to our elbows in bees I'll continue to sell my simple local honey at the door with the area my beehives are kept shown on the label. It seems to satisfy my clientele.

 

[user 20297]

This whole discussion has become like one of the long debates among monks and theologians of the middle ages about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. I suppose it helps to pass the time while we aren't up to our elbows in bees I'll continue to sell my simple local honey at the door with the area my beehives are kept shown on the label. It seems to satisfy my clientele.

It's not really that complicated nor as metaphysical; it's simply the matter of whether or not some beekeepers should be permitted to use an adjective to describe their honey....I've always wondered what sort of definition describes "local" and how that applies once our honey has passed into another locality. But "local" seems OK....or is it?

 

[Into the lions den]

I think people are not picking up on Patrick's very serious point.

A;; except some very bottom of the spectrum honeys are NOT cooked...therefore they are raw. Adding a meaningless term to labels IS.....whatever anyone else seems to think....sowing......quite intentionally and with total deniability...the idea that 'the other guy's honey' not labelled as raw is somehow inferior. Its actually a lie by implication against your fellow beekeeper. I suspect every single beekeeper on here could use the word raw if it were defined and allowed...so everyone could use it. What differentiation next? Could end up with strings of equally meaningless terms on labels, and if you don't add then someone will be out there negative marketing against you.

Its nonsense. In some circles it is actually just a way to sell honey that has not been *properly* filtered. As in no damage to the honey but all the foreign bodies taken out.

I don't know if it is still going on but saw a pro0duct in the USA one time being s0old as raw honey on plaind jars with very nice brown paper labels that looked as if they were just torn by hand off a sheet and hand written on. This was fine until you saw the same in many places..and the labels were identical...so actually was a well worked out mass market campaign. They liked nice strong smelling honey like goldenrod to have in their mix. Every jar had bits of wax, pollen plugs etc etc floating on top, and always about the same amount.

The honey itself was bought in in drums from beekeepers clean. The 'stuff' was back added at packing time. Very clever.

There are plenty of legal ways to describe your product that will yell the client what they want to know, and highlight its merits, without encouraging the use of gobbledegook. You all have a great story to tell...use it honestly.

Do sometimes get asked at the door if the honey is raw...we dont do retail sales so they get sent away empty handed anyway......and always tell them ALL honey from beekeepers is effectively raw. Do not go paying an inflated price for a meaningless word on the label..

 

[Anduril]

It's not really that complicated nor as metaphysical; it's simply the matter of whether or not some beekeepers should be permitted to use an adjective to describe their honey....I've always wondered what sort of definition describes "local" and how that applies once our honey has passed into another locality. But "local" seems OK....or is it?

My comment about virgin honey was done tongue in cheek, following in the footsteps of olive oil. My honey is sold as a regional description, which makes it a local honey, this is all I need to sell my honey. As to feedback my honey has been eaten in Scotland and Southern Ireland, tasted by a millionaire from Brazil, owner of part of the Amazon and sold to a pub who is the proud holder of a Bib Gourmand from the Michelin Guide, and were featured in The Good Food Guide, the Good Pub Guide and the Michelin Eating Out in Pubs Guide. What more can I ask, I don't need to use the term raw.

 

[mbc]

[/QUOTE]

Why not have a movement like red tractor! Obviously a bee logo with a tag line of one or two words ?

I think nihbs have a sort of red tractor scheme for honey sold by their members.

 

[Amari]

You don't even need to be an expert at Googling to discover that UK-based companies are using the marketing power of the label "Raw" to sell overpriced product....eg:
https://www.therawhoneyshop.com/col...15dKO1TGGwjiNeP_DnhJMdXz5-SdTiJQaAinhEALw_wcB

Every jar has numerous 5-star reviews - at a quick flip through I didn't spot even a 4-star opinion!!!

 

[Wilco]

Why not have a movement like red tractor! Obviously a bee logo with a tag line of one or two words ?

From my perspective, Red Tractor as a marker of quality and welfare is almost meaningless.

Edit: it's morphed from something which was meant to show higher welfare standards. However, pretty much all farms have to have it now in order to sell to supermarkets so it's a cost to the farmer which they have to pay to access the market. The standards are not that great and should be seen as a minimum acceptable standard rather than actually signifying better than average welfare. I would not encourage us adopting a similar approach. The only winner will be the company assessing the quality assurance.

Just have honey be called honey and require processing beyond a certain point to be clearly displayed on the main label. Stops those having a good product having to seek ever imaginative ways to distinguish our product and puts the burden on the producers of the over processed stuff.

 

[enrico]

I think people are not picking up on Patrick's very serious point.

A;; except some very bottom of the spectrum honeys are NOT cooked...therefore they are raw. Adding a meaningless term to labels IS.....whatever anyone else seems to think....sowing......quite intentionally and with total deniability...the idea that 'the other guy's honey' not labelled as raw is somehow inferior. Its actually a lie by implication against your fellow beekeeper. I suspect every single beekeeper on here could use the word raw if it were defined and allowed...so everyone could use it. What differentiation next? Could end up with strings of equally meaningless terms on labels, and if you don't add then someone will be out there negative marketing against you.

Its nonsense. In some circles it is actually just a way to sell honey that has not been *properly* filtered. As in no damage to the honey but all the foreign bodies taken out.

I don't know if it is still going on but saw a pro0duct in the USA one time being s0old as raw honey on plaind jars with very nice brown paper labels that looked as if they were just torn by hand off a sheet and hand written on. This was fine until you saw the same in many places..and the labels were identical...so actually was a well worked out mass market campaign. They liked nice strong smelling honey like goldenrod to have in their mix. Every jar had bits of wax, pollen plugs etc etc floating on top, and always about the same amount.

The honey itself was bought in in drums from beekeepers clean. The 'stuff' was back added at packing time. Very clever.

There are plenty of legal ways to describe your product that will yell the client what they want to know, and highlight its merits, without encouraging the use of gobbledegook. You all have a great story to tell...use it honestly.

Do sometimes get asked at the door if the honey is raw...we dont do retail sales so they get sent away empty handed anyway......and always tell them ALL honey from beekeepers is effectively raw. Do not go paying an inflated price for a meaningless word on the label..

But I think you miss the point. Not all honey is raw. I call my honey raw because it is. If a cheap derivative of honey is called raw but is not then it should not be called it and therefore THEY are misleading people, not me!

 

[Finman]

I call my honey raw because it is.

And what makes it raw, even if you extracted rippen honey from hives?