Laurence Edwards' petition to allow the use of the word "Raw" to describe unheated, non-pressure filtered honey.

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Raw is a term that the consumer has inflicted on the market and it is now being denigrated by inferior products (many from abroad) that are claiming to be raw and frankly legislation may be required to prevent these products from misleading the market.

That's easy, as in Laurence's case - ban the use of the word in relation to honey

 

[Murox]

There are so many good and valid observations that have been made regardless of whether or not you support the idea. However I would firstly address the elephant in the room.
The government via trading standards officers plainly does not/ will not enforce the law. The import of products labelled contrary to those laws is allowed or has a blind eye turned towards them seemingly because of money. In my eyes the government and trading standards are guilty of a dereliction of duty and blatant deliberate failure to uphold its/their own regulations and law. This to me is more than a petition issue, its about discriminatory and biased application of rules/laws in favour of anyone who has enough clout/money, trading standards even say as much. I call that corruption which bizarrely many local officials don't seem to care about.
EDIT - Why do we leave this unchallenged, both locally and nationally - whilst thats rhetorical and I know the answer its a question major producers might want to address.

 

[Newbeeneil]

However, when I highlighted someone using it (major supplier) they said that it is not worth their effort in taking it up and refused to take any action.

I find this sad as TS obviously thought it was " worth their effort" to confront BMH.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Perhaps we should all just put "unpasteurised" on our labels.
I think somewhere in one of Enrico's threads somebody made a list of the descriptions that could go on our labels

Pure or unpasteurised or both.

 

[enrico]

By now everyone knows my view on the subject I have argued it until I am blue in the face! A wonderful video that I applaud. He gets my vote
E

 

[thorn]

And while we're at it, let's consider "organic" honey.

 

[pargyle]

That's easy, as in Laurence's case - ban the use of the word in relation to honey

But you are not solving the problem of how you differeniate between the 'real' honey that beekeepers sell and the highly processed stuff you find on supermarket shelves that has nothing of the qualities that you find in unprocessed honey. Plus, if there is already a perception by many customers that 'raw' honey is what they want - why deny them the opportunity to know that what they are buying is what they want - my point (which you have skipped over) is that there should be a definition of raw honey - ie: not heated excessively beyond a specified temperature and not filtered beyond a specified micron limit that allows the pollen grains and minute particles of wax and propolis to remain in the honey,

I can't see where you can have any logical resistance to this - as a small scale bee farmer it has to be in your interest to differentiate your honey from the run of the mill product that has been heavily processed. There is a difference in taste and more importantly public perception and we should be allowed to identify this. Unpastuerised does not really cut it and you cannot sensibly explain not filtered as much as the supermarket stuff on a label.

 

[Curly green finger's]

And while we're at it, let's consider "organic" honey.

Let's think about that, if a honey sample came back as say 99% pesticide free and the apiary/s were on a organic or regenerative organic farm could the honey them be classed as organic if all of the other requirements were adired to.
Or more so perhaps for those that take colonys to Heather on the hills/mountains and the above was adired to, hope I've asked this question right?

 

[roche]

Craft, or artisan honey?

 

[Boston Bees]

I find this sad as TS obviously thought it was " worth their effort" to confront BMH.

It is sad, and wrong that he has been picked on when others aren't. But you can see why TS would pick a firm of BMH's scale. They are not so small as to be not worth the effort, but not so large that it isn't clear who TS would even approach (ever tried phoning Amazon or Tesco? It isn't simple). Still wrong though. Government at its worst.

 

[pargyle]

I agree with Murray on this one, most will at some point have to warm there honey or not, if we use the term raw to me that would indicate that it hasn't been warmed through?

It depends upon how much heat is applied ... and it's not only about heat - fine filtering and pasteurising is required to prevent honey crystallising in the jar but such processing detracts from the qualities, taste and content that are affected by this process. You are seeking to differentiate your honeys by adding what you think they are but - there is already a perception of what raw honey means to you customers - the fact that people are asking for it should lead you in the right direction.

 

[pargyle]

Let's think about that, if a honey sample came back as say 99% pesticide free and the apiary/s were on a organic or regenerative organic farm could the honey them be classed as organic if all of the other requirements were adired to.
Or more so perhaps for those that take colonys to Heather on the hills/mountains and the above was adired to, hope I've asked this question right?

It's irrelevant to this discussion - organic honey aready has a strict definition and there are very few areas in the UK where honey is produced that would permit the organic label to be used.

 

[thorn]

Let's think about that, if a honey sample came back as say 99% pesticide free and the apiary/s were on a organic or regenerative organic farm could the honey them be classed as organic if all of the other requirements were adired to.
Or more so perhaps for those that take colonys to Heather on the hills/mountains and the above was adired to, hope I've asked this question right?

If, about half a mile from that organic farm there was a cottage with a flower garden, vegetable plot and orchard and whose owner regularly used chemical sprays and fertilisers, could the beekeeper guarantee that his bees never visited that cottage? It would take some training.

 

[Finman]

Perhaps we should all just put "unpasteurised" on our labels.

WHY!.

there is a food company in UK, which sells honey to 100 countries . Does it need to change its labes according the country. I am sure tgat tgey do not care about hobby beekeepers labeling.

Yeah! We have " black bee's honey". 100€/kg.
Have you missed something!

 

[thorn]

It is sad, and wrong that he has been picked on when others aren't. But you can see why TS would pick a firm of BMH's scale. They are not so small as to be not worth the effort, but not so large that it isn't clear who TS would even approach (ever tried phoning Amazon or Tesco? It isn't simple). Still wrong though. Government at its worst.

Unfortunately once a complaint has been made TS has to follow it up.

 

[pargyle]

Nevertheless gits who've read a few words from some trendy foodie and think they know all about honey when they come to my stall asking if its raw irritate the tits off me.

But these 'gits' that you are talking about are exactly the sort of discerning customers you WANT. Regardless of their motives (trendy or not as the case may be) they are the people who are seeking out a product that, in their perception, is unprocessed and is more or less as the bees made it. They will pay a premium for the product that meets their aspirations. They should not irritate you - you should welcome them with open arms.

As for beekeepers who 'do very little' to their honey .. well, the reality is that all you have to do with most honey is filter it lightly and warm it gently if it is too thick to pour and jar it up as required. I see nothing wrong with that . I do find that you sometimes see really rubbish looking honey for sale in markets and smaller retail outlets - but, regardless of the label you put on such honey - it won't sell even whatever you describe it as !

 

[pargyle]

If you use “Raw” on your honey today as a marketing gimmick what are you going to use in 5 years’ time to describe the uniqueness of the product, start using hyperboles to describe honey and the product will suffer, just look at Trump is that how we want honey to be regarded.

The fake honeys are shown up by the reverse label.

But how many people buying honey look at the back label ? In five years time, if all beekeepers got behind it - we could have a standard set for 'raw' honey that would preclude the use of the term when the honey has been pasteurised and fine filtered ... Organic is strictly controlled - rather than ban the word raw - set a standard.

 

[The Poot]

Not sure 10 days will be enough.........

 

[Patrick1]

I have had long conversations with Trading Standards on this. Raw is not allowed as the only definition that can be applied is he opposite of cooked and that is found in the Defra guidelines. As honey is never cooked it cannot be Raw. However, when I highlighted someone using it (major supplier) they said that it is not worth their effort in taking it up and refused to take any action. I have in writing from my local trading standards (surrey) i can use Pure, but it varies by region and how they feel like enforcing things. Happy to send anyone in Surrey a copy of the letter if they want.

It is not "pure" unless you heat it and high pressure filter it, it contains pollens and offten parts of bees

 

[pargyle]

If, about half a mile from that organic farm there was a cottage with a flower garden, vegetable plot and orchard and whose owner regularly used chemical sprays and fertilisers, could the beekeeper guarantee that his bees never visited that cottage? It would take some training.

No ... that's why it's so hard in the UK to gain any certification for 'organic honey' ... it's not just the garden half a mile down the road .. bees will fly several kilometres for high value forage so draw a 5 km circle on any area of the UK and guarantee that the area within it is totally organic ... not many places that would meet the criteria.