Laurence Edwards' petition to allow the use of the word "Raw" to describe unheated, non-pressure filtered honey.

[Erichalfbee]

So would you have to kill every badger and every deer and test sheep?

 

[The Poot]

And don’t forget the already vaccinated alpacas......Geronimo!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

And don’t forget the already vaccinated alpacas......Geronimo!

Or big Mac as he's now called

 

[Wilco]

So would you have to kill every badger and every deer and test sheep?

Within TB affected areas. And cattle too.

Preferably not- my suggestion is rather many more of them than currently rather than all. Even though I find it distasteful (understatement), I think it's more likely to work than the current approach and whilst there would be a lot killed at once it would be less than the total which will be killed with the current approach going on for decades. Reverting to a sett based approach would be more sensible for badgers than the current shooting approach-- if one tests positive, the rest of the badgers in the sett have been exposed and the sett itself is going to be contaminated so is a potential fomite if reinhabited. High badger population being curbed would also benefit a number of other species but that's a separate argument. Deer would be a nightmare to sort out but there are also arguments that the populations are exploding, culling would reduce population density thus reduce R within deer (and badgers). TB is an impressive microbe. To beat it we either need to get 'radical' or get used to it.

 

[pargyle]

Does it say anywhere there that it has to be on the front?
I checked and double checked with various authorities including TS (I had a friend, who at the time was head of TS/EH of Carmarthenshire), the legality was also checked when I was judged in the commercial section at the National Honey show (and discussed later with the judge)
As I said in my last post All the regulations say is that all the mandatory stuff must be in the same field of vision - it doesn't matter where on the jar that is (mandatory, in our case also means the description 'Honey')
Have a look at the majority of items on supermarket shelves and you will see that weights etc, are usually on the side or the back of the package.

But, with respect, that's not what the food labelling regs state ... see my post above ...

The net quantity must be close enough to the name of the food that you can see all this information at the same time

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

But, with respect, that's not what the food labelling regs state ... see my post above ...

The net quantity must be close enough to the name of the food that you can see all this information at the same time

and that was exactly what I said at the outset, but in fewer and different words - it must all be in the one field of vision
I'm not going to dig back over ten years just to find the email I received back just to satisfy minor nitpicking

 

[pargyle]

and that was exactly what I said at the outset, but in fewer and different words - it must all be in the one field of vision
I'm not going to dig back over ten years just to find the email I received back just to satisfy minor nitpicking

If you recall ... it was the label on the Morrisons jar that I was querying from the Local Honey Man ... which clearly does not have the product and the weight in the same field of vision - which, in this instance was the front of the jar. I rather think you introduced some doubt into my mind so I went and looked at the actual regulations ... whether that relates to your jars I don't know ... it wasn't my concern. I wasn't nit picking - there are people on here who may look to see what the labelling requirements are and whether or not yours met the requirements of the Honey Show judges has little, if any, relevance. The regs are the regs and the wording field of vision does not appear in them. What it says is clear ..

Quote: "The net quantity must be close enough to the name of the food that you can see all this information at the same time"

End of ...
.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

But do you know what was on the back of the label? which was the question I asked in my initial post
As most labels I've seen have the product name on the front as well as the back, and you seem to have disregarded the fact you cannot yet claim that the said label is in breach of the regulations
end of................

 

[pargyle]

Now who is nit picking ? Where in the field of vision as you put it - or more importantly as the regs stipulate can you see the weight declared ?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Now who is nit picking ? Where in the field of vision as you put it - or more importantly as the regs stipulate can you see the weight declared ?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? for a start, that photograph is only showing one elevation of the jar as I said in my initial post

the weight can be anywhere - it's probably on the back with all the other mandatory bits. All the regulations stipulate is that all the mandatory stuff is in the right font size and all in the same field of vision (apart from the BBE/Lot numbers - they can be elsewhere as long as where is again indicated in that one field)

so without knowing what's on the other side of the jar (obviously not shown as they don't always show the boring bits), your initial statement

Regardless of the word raw that label does not meet ANY of the honey labelling requirements ... origin, weight ?

May not be true

This is my label

Which according to you is illegal
BUT
All the mandatory stuff (including again the word honey) is on a separate label on the other side of the jar, all in one field of vision or, if you prefer close enough to the name of the food that you can see all this information at the same time

 

[Erichalfbee]

Now who is nit picking ? Where in the field of vision as you put it - or more importantly as the regs stipulate can you see the weight declared ?

View attachment 29574

Stop fighting you two.
Emyr has a point. The word honey might be repeated on the back along with the weight and some sort of address which is what I do

 

[Patrick1]

Never mind fighting amongst ourselves, lets work on the common enemy, divert all that pent up energy and direct it at the companies abusing the term honey. For once, can we just stop beating ourselves up.

 

[Murox]

Never mind fighting amongst ourselves, lets work on the common enemy, divert all that pent up energy and direct it at the companies abusing the term honey. For once, can we just stop beating ourselves up.

 

[Repwoc]

Never mind fighting amongst ourselves, lets work on the common enemy, divert all that pent up energy and direct it at the companies abusing the term honey. For once, can we just stop beating ourselves up.

Totally agree. Unfortunately, I think all we can do is complain to TS and they seem to be impotent when dealing with the perpetrators.

 

[Sanntos]

View attachment 29574

View attachment 29576

The message of these two labels intends to communicate are the same, high quality honey, but the latter one is more subtly, and I am sure also the winner in the long run, since it speaks to the informed customer.

I guess the first one sells more for the moment. But everybody can print that label, probably adding "Very Excellent". Only Mel Cymreig can print the other one.

 

[Finman]

Never mind fighting amongst ourselves, lets work on the common enemy, divert all that pent up energy and direct it at the companies abusing the term honey. For once, can we just stop beating ourselves up.

You are right. This is a Trade War

You only remember that worst enemy is your next door beekeeper. Same markets. At global scale it is China. EU is nothing any more.

 

[PeaBee]

Totally agree. Unfortunately, I think all we can do is complain to TS and they seem to be impotent when dealing with the perpetrators.

Not sure they are impotent, they have the regulations and 2017 guidelines so they have the "tools" they need. I guess the possible varied response is largely dependent on local resources and priorities. Certainly the TSO I spoke to yesterday said they will investigate complaints and take action on anyone with Raw on the label that is reported. all TS have to at least look into a complaint but if you are busy with illegally imported booze, fags and hazardous knock off electrical appliances etc and increased workload due to imports and exports procedures changing. Where does a disgruntled beekeeper come on the priority list. Its a really niche compliant that most people are not bothered with, 90% of honey consumed is imported mass produced stuff which suggest 9/10 consumers are pretty apathetic towards honey. Of the remaining 10% the producers are split over the raw issue and those customers who buy in the 10% are probably savvy enough to value the product without the need for claims. Using it is not posing a health risk or doing harm and not costing the country in terms of lost revenue due to fraud etc so interms of non compliance with regulations is pretty low down the list. Those who want to use it presumably think it will direct more customers and sales to them, mainly via search engines. But I doubt many of those will be converts from supermarket stuff but more likley from another small producers and possibly more local. Lets not think this is a way of taking on the imports it's just a marketing tool that some want to use for their benifit. By all means if you think it's unfair that some use it and some get caught out using it either lobby for it to change or report those you see using it. Quality local honey should not and does not need gimicks.

 

[user 20297]

The message of these two labels intends to communicate are the same, high quality honey, but the latter one is more subtly, and I am sure also the winner in the long run, since it speaks to the informed customer.

I guess the first one sells more for the moment. But everybody can print that label, probably adding "Very Excellent". Only Mel Cymreig can print the other one.

Anyone of hundreds of beekeepers can write "Mel Cymreig" on their label; it's special, but not as special as,
"Mil Albannach", ("Scottish Honey").

 

[Erichalfbee]

Mine’s even more special

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Anyone of hundreds of beekeepers can write "Mel Cymreig" on their label

Of course they can - it means 'Wesh Honey'
But most around here just ask the shopkeeper for Brynmair honey