Carniolan Queen bee

[Quis Custodiet]

Everyone knows, how drones get their birth.

Finman, I know how Italian drones "get their birth", but it would be much too rude to elaborate!

 

[Finman]

Finman, I know how Italian drones "get their birth", but it would be much too rude to elaborate!

Often Italian drones are as black as Carniolans. How do you know difference?

 

[B+.]

Everyone knows, how drones get their birth.

OK...this is essentially what I was saying https://youtu.be/xD62suykD6o

 

[B+.]

I did not understand that explanation at all.

Swarming and agressiveness are natural habit of honeybee.
Nonswarming and calmness are result of human selection.

How inbreeding adds swarming! Compared to what? Bees natural system is that it produces two swarms in a year. How many swarms does inbred hive produces?

Very strange

.

If each colony produced 2 swarms every year there would be no honey produced anywhere. Surely, our responsibility is to contain swarming as best we can and understanding the contributing factors is part of it

 

[Finman]

OK...this is essentially what I was saying https://youtu.be/xD62suykD6o

It is surely in every beekeeping book. It would be good, if everybody, who starts beekeeping, buy an own beekeeping book.

 

[B+.]

It is surely in every beekeeping book. It would be good, if everybody, who starts beekeeping, buy an own beekeeping book.

...and all that stuff about the pedigree and why things are done the way they are on islands is common knowledge?

 

[Quis Custodiet]

Often Italian drones are as black as Carniolans. How do you know difference?

Finman, It's what's referred to as the "immaculate Conception" and involves men in long white frocks. They purchase quite a lot of beeswax too!

 

[foghornleghorn]

@b+, do your bees need 2 brood boxes to overwinter?

 

[Swarm]

My understanding of Carnies is they are frugal, they build up fast but they will check brood rearing in times of dearth.

 

[Motobiman]

If each colony produced 2 swarms every year there would be no honey produced anywhere. Surely, our responsibility is to contain swarming as best we can and understanding the contributing factors is part of it

Only if honey production is our only aim.

Without swarming there would be far less expansion of the species and as we have seen beekeepers replacing the losses due to various factors is an uphill struggle.

Left to their own devices I suspect the bees would get there in time.

 

[Finman]

...and all that stuff about the pedigree and why things are done the way they are on islands is common knowledge?

It is clear, because you have there only islands.

.

 

[Finman]

If each colony produced 2 swarms every year there would be no honey produced anywhere.

Bees do so, but you have out there so much hives, that each hive does not get yield.

 

[Finman]

My understanding of Carnies is they are frugal, they build up fast but they will check brood rearing in times of dearth.

If you feed pollen patty to Italians, it builds up as fast as Carniolan.

Carniolan has pollen stores after winter, and it can start earlier brood rearing than Italian. But even Carniolan cannot keep huge pollen stores, because it needs most of all honey stores.

 

[B+.]

@b+, do your bees need 2 brood boxes to overwinter?

No. I wouldn't say that, but, it is my preference to try to get them into 2 boxes if I can. There are a number of benefits to this:
1. They are lifted above any cold air pocket close to the ground (as the cluster will usually be in the upper box by the time it gets really cold)
2. They have space to store any late nectar/pollen (e.g. ivy) even when I don't really want to be opening them up to check how much space they have.
3. I don't have to go charging around like an idiot in the spring making sure that they aren't starving (because I fed them in the autumn if necessary).
4. There is ample room for the colony to expand without needing extra boxes to be added (The less I have to do early in the spring, the easier it is for me).
5. If they are all in 2 boxes, it is easier for me to compare colony A with colony B

I know some will say it is extra room that they need to heat, but, my hives are mostly Paradise Honey polyhives (http://paradisehoney.net/en/beebox-beehives/) which keep the colony well insulated. The cluster will be in the upper box where it is warmest anyway.

 

[B+.]

My understanding of Carnies is they are frugal, they build up fast but they will check brood rearing in times of dearth.

Generally, this is true. However, I believe in telling the bad as well as the good....
I had one colony that starved over winter. It had a single brood but 2 supers of granulated osr honey at last inspection in the autumn. This should have been ample.
My point, which I am sure has been made before, is that there is variation within any population. If we don't test them, we do not know which colonies perform better than average and which are eating us out of house and home.

 

[B+.]

Only if honey production is our only aim.

Without swarming there would be far less expansion of the species and as we have seen beekeepers replacing the losses due to various factors is an uphill struggle.

Left to their own devices I suspect the bees would get there in time.

If natural reproduction was the only way bees reproduced, I might agree with you. However, I test my colonies and breed from those with the highest breeding values (just like cattle, poultry, etc). This means that I have to make new colonies too. So, I don't want swarmy bees. I want bees that are gentle, pest and disease resistant, and work hard. I will help with the reproduction of good stock

 

[B+.]

If you feed pollen patty to Italians, it builds up as fast as Carniolan.

Finman, I fear that you are missing the point of the testing protocols. If you treat one group of colonies (or one race) differently than another, it is not a fair test of their abilities.
If the Italians don't prepare adequately for winter, this will manifest itself in their spring development. Is it right that the Carniolan group should be penalised because they prepared for winter ?

 

[Quis Custodiet]

.................If you feed pollen patty to Italians, it builds up as fast as Carniolan..................

That has not been what I witnessed here. Appropriate spring feeding will normally promote brood rearing in any sub species. The rapid and early build up of the carniolans has not been duplicated.

 

[Finman]

Finman, I fear that you are missing the point of the testing protocols. If you treat one group of colonies (or one race) differently than another, it is not a fair test of their abilities.
If the Italians don't prepare adequately for winter, this will manifest itself in their spring development. Is it right that the Carniolan group should be penalised because they prepared for winter ?

I am not missing anything. I have education of biology reasearcher, and it must bee enough to see, how bees build up in spring.

You are missing very essential B+: I am not university, and no one have payed to me that I have different testing apiaries.


I just tell, that when I kept 10 years different Carniolan breeds and different Italian bees and hybrids together, I did not observed any difference in build up when I fed them with pollen patty.

I gove up from Carniolans because they were too bad in their swarming habits comoared to Italians.

 

[B+.]

I am not missing anything. I have education of biology reasearcher, and it must bee enough to see, how bees build up in spring.

You are missing very essential B+: I am not university, and no one have payed to me that I have different testing apiaries.

Then, why are you advocating different treatment for one group of test subjects? This is not a fair test.

I am not in university either. Nobody pays me to perform these tests.