Importation of bees

[Into the lions den]

Another 100 cancelled last night. Something is afoot.

 

[Newbeeneil]

Keep us up to date Murray.
Are they all buying from the same source do you think?

 

[Apple]

"Social Media" is awash with this news......

Ban all honeybee imports now hi jacked by the Vegan Lobby....
now should you feed your bees Vegan Sugar!??

Apparently old bones from little donkeys are used in the processing of cane sugar.. so not fit for bees... or Vegans!!

Yeghes da

 

[mbc]

Another 100 cancelled last night. Something is afoot.

I'm guessing because the customer either found bees cheaper or earlier, cost or convenience.
Is there enough margin for someone operating out of the six counties to buy a lorry load of packages, take a skim and send them on to Kent, probably on the same lorry, for another distributor to make a cut?

 

[Apple]

I'm guessing because the customer either found bees cheaper or earlier, cost or convenience.
Is there enough margin for someone operating out of the six counties to buy a lorry load of packages, take a skim and send them on to Kent, probably on the same lorry, for another distributor to make a cut?

If it is possible for a lorry load of illegal immigrants to get past the boarder force into the UK... then in all probability a lorry load of illegal bees would bee no problem!

 

[mbc]

If it is possible for a lorry load of illegal immigrants to get past the boarder force into the UK... then in all probability a lorry load of illegal bees would bee no problem!

I think we've established it's technically legal for beekeepers in NI to import from the eu

 

[Somerford]

Haven't read your whole post yet but just wanted to type my thoughts on your UK supply being able to supply the UK market being a myth statement.
Of course uk supply could manage, it's purely price point and convenience we fail on.
If necessary we could overwinter more nucs to fill the gap, without doubt.
I'm not arguing here that we should do this, just refuting your definitive statement.

As Murray said IF it were possible it would be done already.

weather for early consistent mating in the UK is against us.

when I look back at my records of three years where I’ve really stepped up my own production of queens I find that 2 out of the three early grafts/matings didn’t go well.
The second batch didn’t do too badly
June was hit and miss - last year late June wasn’t good for mating and then better July results across all three years

amateurs and Beefarmers alike want and need mated queens early in the season to repopulate failing queens or to make splits to drive numbers or replenish losses.

hence the UK weather isn’t conducive.

it’s funny how many in the BBKA loved Europe and the EU yet couldn’t get their heads around the fact that bees and queens are moved all across mainland Europe - one continent - yet somehow our island should be not part of that. The weather in Holland, Northern Germany,France isn’t much different to our own hence they rely on stocks from further south.

how do ‘we fail on price point’ is this another case of amateurs wanting the bees for knock down prices and a replacement queen thrown in for good measure ?
What would you genuinely be willing to pay for a UK bred and mated queen ? Be serious and I’m happy to sign a contract to supply you.
And as for ‘overwintering more nucs’ - how many do you suggest ? How does this ?
S

 

[Boston Bees]

Another 100 cancelled last night. Something is afoot.

If you don't mind me asking, how do you adapt to hundreds of cancelled package orders? Were these packages being made with imported queens combined with workers from your hives? If so can you cancel the order for those queens? Or are they queens that you were going to make yourself, and now won't need to?

 

[Swn58]

Have they reopened the border between Warwickshire and Brum then ? They used to have checkpoints South of Solihull and barbed wire round Leamington Spa ....

It's still difficult. I still have to carry my papers with me. It helps that I come from Sussex originally though, where people 'talk posher.'

 

[mbc]

As Murray said IF it were possible it would be done already.

weather for early consistent mating in the UK is against us.

when I look back at my records of three years where I’ve really stepped up my own production of queens I find that 2 out of the three early grafts/matings didn’t go well.
The second batch didn’t do too badly
June was hit and miss - last year late June wasn’t good for mating and then better July results across all three years

amateurs and Beefarmers alike want and need mated queens early in the season to repopulate failing queens or to make splits to drive numbers or replenish losses.

hence the UK weather isn’t conducive.

it’s funny how many in the BBKA loved Europe and the EU yet couldn’t get their heads around the fact that bees and queens are moved all across mainland Europe - one continent - yet somehow our island should be not part of that. The weather in Holland, Northern Germany,France isn’t much different to our own hence they rely on stocks from further south.

how do ‘we fail on price point’ is this another case of amateurs wanting the bees for knock down prices and a replacement queen thrown in for good measure ?
What would you genuinely be willing to pay for a UK bred and mated queen ? Be serious and I’m happy to sign a contract to supply you.
And as for ‘overwintering more nucs’ - how many do you suggest ? How does this ?
S

Thanks for your reply Somerford.
Of course it's possible, the reason it hasn't been done is financial, not practical feasibility.
I don't buy in queens thanks, I sell a few hundred and rising surplus each season.
If imports were stopped, the gap would be filled, necessity is the mother of invention as they say.

 

[ericbeaumont]

If imports were stopped, the gap would be filled, necessity is the mother of invention as they say.

In which case, GB needs more Ged Marshalls.

Ged produces 2000 a year; add in ITLD, Peter Little and others and where does that get us? Price point is secondary to supply and we'd get used to it, especially if yields increase.

 

[madasafish]

In which case, GB needs more Ged Marshalls.

Ged produces 2000 a year; add in ITLD, Peter Little and others and where does that get us? Price point is secondary to supply and we'd get used to it, especially if yields increase.

IIRC , imports of Queens into UK are in the region of 16-20,000 a year.

I would suggest Commercial UK queen raisers sell approx 10,000 at most a year.(GED2,000,PL say 2,000, ITLD say 2,000 others 4,000)

So to replace Q imports , UK local output of Qs for resale will have to treble from 10,000 to 30,000.

That takes a lot of equipment, money and skilled people. And good weather.

In the meantime, without imports UK prices are going only one way.

 

[Ian123]

In which case, GB needs more Ged Marshalls.

Ged produces 2000 a year; add in ITLD, Peter Little and others and where does that get us? Price point is secondary to supply and we'd get used to it, especially if yields increase.

And all these producers import, Pete occasionally brings in breeders Ged works with Buckfast Denmark and Murray’s been very clear with what he does. Ian

 

[Ian123]

And all these producers import, Pete occasionally brings in breeders Ged works with Buckfast Denmark and Murray’s been very clear with what he does. Ian

Ooops I forgot none of the above hilariously would qualify for a BBKA master queen rears certificate.....God Murray how do you sleep at night

 

[Into the lions den]

Keep us up to date Murray.
Are they all buying from the same source do you think?

Not sure what is happening yet.......assurance of early supply elsewhere cited as a reason but not by all. Then again folk do not usually like to admit the real reasons. Will see. We may have simply been the fall back option and once availability was being promised elsewhere they go back to plan A.

C'est la vie. Thats business..the customer always has a choice. But I also have a choice if they come back unable to get from plan A.

This morning after this came to peoples attentiuon have one guy saying that if I have spare he will take some of them as he thought (correctly) supply would be limited.

If these folk DO return looking to reinstate their orders it will be with perverse delight I may have to inform them they are sold elsewhere.

 

[Into the lions den]

If you don't mind me asking, how do you adapt to hundreds of cancelled package orders? Were these packages being made with imported queens combined with workers from your hives? If so can you cancel the order for those queens? Or are they queens that you were going to make yourself, and now won't need to?

Will not be a problem.

Our friends will just graft fewer...though tbhy..even if they are from our own stock..they have a ready market for all the queens and indeed so probably would we. As for the packages? We just don't make what there is no market for..the bees can make own hive splits or a honey crop here...many routes for everything. We are a multi facetted outfit so can easily divert resources.

Edited a bit out here that was not really relevant.

 

[Boston Bees]

Will not be a problem.

Our friends will just graft fewer...though tbhy..even if they are from our own stock..they have a ready market for all the queens and indeed so probably would we. As for the packages? We just don't make what there is no market for..the bees can make own hive splits or a honey crop here...many routes for everything. We are a multi facetted outfit so can easily divert resources.

So are L:aterza in the south of Italy.....the idea they are lovcked into an arrangement with a UK imp[orter that will destroy all those baby bees is emotive nonsense. There are weeks left to change direction.

Thanks for the response - makes total sense

 

[madasafish]

Ooops I forgot none of the above hilariously would qualify for a BBKA master queen rears certificate.....God Murray how do you sleep at night

And because they are not using local bees, will NEVER qualify.

(the BBKA is a master of own goals)

 

[Ian123]

Ok so let’s say direct imports from NI are a grey area, and if the EU think vaccines can come in that way I would think they are. What happens in this scenario. .....Mr bee equipment has a friendly NI commercial Beek, he orders Nucs from mr bee equips normal supplier taking his original order. He receives them and immediately sells/ships on to mr bee equipment for a nominal profit or retaining a couple of packages...........what laws have been broken?

 

[Repwoc]

what laws have been broken?

None apparently.

http://www.nationalbeeunit.com/downloadDocument.cfm?id=977

Imports from Northern Ireland
Information on trade with Northern Ireland is provided on the gov.uk website. The Northern Ireland Protocol The Northern Ireland Protocol sets the principle of unfettered access for Northern Ireland businesses to Great Britain. Northern Ireland businesses may export to Great Britain under the same bee health conditions in place prior to the end of the transition period. This means that NI beekeepers may continue to export packages and colonies to the UK. There will be no border checks on consignments despatched from Northern Ireland.

However, "under the same bee health conditions in place prior to the end of the transition period" used to include registering the import consignments on TRACES which I don't think we have access to any more. Maybe a technicality that the authorities could leverage.