Importation of bees

[Apple]

And because they are not using local bees, will NEVER qualify.

(the BBKA is a master of own goals)

OR using II which is against "soil association" regulations

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

None apparently.

convince yourself of that if you want to, but this isn't an importation from NI it's an importation from a third country via NI, there is no 'grey area' importing them into NI with the sole purpose of transshipping them on to mainlkand UK is unlawful.

 

[ericbeaumont]

He receives them and immediately sells/ships on to mr bee equipment

This is the heart of the matter and open to interpretation.

IrishNews.com reported the BE import saga today: The UK Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) said it is aware of the issue and is working with the devolved administrations to find a solution.

Lower down the article:
Defra said bee health is a devolved matter and it is working to find a solution. A department spokesperson said it will provide guidance to bee importers and beekeepers as soon as possible.

It is the responsibility of the importer to ensure that goods dispatched from Northern Ireland meet the definition of NI qualifying goods or meet import requirements, they added.

DefraMedia posted a Q&A on the topic on 8 Feb but answers are conflicting:
Q Can bees be moved from Northern Ireland to Great Britain after they have been imported from the EU?
A From 1 January 2021, all goods in free circulation in Northern Ireland qualify for unfettered access, meaning no declarations, tariffs, new regulatory checks or customs checks, or additional approvals for Northern Ireland businesses to place goods on the GB market. Direct trade from Northern Ireland to Great Britain can continue as it did before the end of the Transition Period.

HMRC have anti-avoidance measures in place to ensure that only genuine trade between NI and GB benefits from unfettered market access.

Further down the page:

Q There are reports you are going to have to kill 15 million bees as you can’t import them?
A This is not true – only queen bees can be imported into Great Britain from third countries, including the EU.
Anyone looking to import bees to the UK should check the guidance available before doing so to avoid importing prohibited material. Any packages and colonies of bees that are imported into GB from the EU would have to be returned to their original location.

Seems to me that HMRC definitions of goods in free circulation in NI and genuine trade are crucial.

At a guess, free circulation and genuine trade would be validated if packages were imported and marketed for sale by an NI supplier, but not if the EU import was ordered by a GB buyer, ticked off in NI and loaded onto another lorry bound for GB.

If so, BE/GB may offload the import job to an NI supplier (who would market the packages openly) and then buy from that supplier, or set up a BE/NI company unconnected with BE/GB to do the same job.

 

[Repwoc]

convince yourself of that if you want to

I'm not convinced and I have no financial or political interest either way - just interested in watching the story unfold.

Where does it say that the practise would be unlawful?

 

[Newbeeneil]

Unless the rules are changed, IMVHO if BE have bees for sale this spring and they have come through NI it could only be seen as avoidance after the fuss he's kicked up about the ban because he accepts that at present its illegal to come via the NI loophole.

 

[Repwoc]

Anyway - according to Beebase:

The aim of the legislation is to prevent the introduction and spread of bee pests and diseases, particularly the Small hive beetle.

But if bees can be imported into NI then so can SHB, and if there is

unfettered access for Northern Ireland businesses to Great Britain

then there is a route for SHB to GB too, even if the bees imported into GB have not come from the EU.

So it's probably all a bit moot. Unless they stop imports from NI too.

 

[Mint Bee]

Unless the rules are changed, IMVHO if BE have bees for sale this spring and they have come through NI it could only be seen as avoidance after the fuss he's kicked up about the ban because he accepts that at present its illegal to come via the NI loophole.

if you want to push the boundaries of the law, it's best done quietly rather than kick up a fuzz and telling everyone when the Bees will be available in the UK for pick up.....

 

[Angry_Mob]

http://www.nationalbeeunit.com/downloadDocument.cfm?id=977
However, "under the same bee health conditions in place prior to the end of the transition period" used to include registering the import consignments on TRACES which I don't think we have access to any more. Maybe a technicality that the authorities could leverage.

The Traces system is still available to those who trade in NI.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Commercial UK queen raisers sell approx 10,000 at most a year.(GED2,000,PL say 2,000, ITLD say 2,000 others 4,000)

Add Becky's Beezz to the list:

Buckfast Queen Rearing
We are excited to be increasing our queen rearing this coming year, we have acquired a new site to set up our queen rearing station.
Beckys Bees Buckfast Mated Queens
We're not sure how many queens we'll be able to offer up this year but fingers crossed it will be a good year and a new step forward for our business.

 

[user 20297]

Some of the arguments in support of not importing bees and for using local bees are discussed (without being challenged) here. If you can trudge through the long US-based intro you will hear Norman Carreck, who gives a strong, evidence-based opinion. Mostly, these ideas have been kicked about on this thread and elsewhere already..
Edit:...also touches on queen quality/failure.
https://anchor.fm/ufhbrel/episodes/...--Foundation-Type-Pros--Cons-epumvu/a-a4huuq7

 

[benjamind]

Apparently old bones from little donkeys are used in the processing of cane sugar.. so not fit for bees... or Vegans!!

Apparently honey isn’t vegan at all never mind donkey bone in the sugar.

The honey industry

The PETA website describes artificial insemination as queens being strapped to “rape racks” -What’s wrong with eating honey? | PETA

 

[Moobee]

Apparently honey isn’t vegan at all never mind donkey bone in the sugar.

The honey industry

The PETA website describes artificial insemination as queens being strapped to “rape racks” -What’s wrong with eating honey? | PETA

Oh for heavens sake!

 

[Apple]

Apple said:


Apparently old bones from little donkeys are used in the processing of cane sugar.. so not fit for bees... or Vegans!!

Cane sugar is not fit for vegans....because old donkey bones are ground up to make the sugar..... and old blind horse's hides too for that matter!

 

[Pembroke]

Apparently honey isn’t vegan at all never mind donkey bone in the sugar.

The honey industry

The PETA website describes artificial insemination as queens being strapped to “rape racks” -What’s wrong with eating honey? | PETA

Have you read that vegan site? They complain about the carbon footprint of importing honey from China & Turkey where they claim the majority on sale in the UK comes from and then suggest their acolytes should instead use date syrup, maple syrup, molasses, butterscotch syrup, golden syrup and agave nectar.

Now I'm not sure where the butterscotch or golden syrups are manufactured but the last time I looked there wasn't a huge number of date or agave plants growing in this country and it's mainly the Canadians who harvest maple syrup. Then there's the other question of where some of their staple foods (Almonds and Avocados) would be if there were no commercial bee pollination operations. Still it would be good exercise for all the vegans to hand pollinate all the almond trees themselves.

 

[madasafish]

Apparently honey isn’t vegan at all never mind donkey bone in the sugar.

The honey industry

The PETA website describes artificial insemination as queens being strapped to “rape racks” -What’s wrong with eating honey? | PETA

PETA KNOW they are telling lies. They repeat them because their target audiece are gullible and want their beliefs to have a cause.

Most vegans are reasonable BUT one site repeated such rubbish. And posts to the contrary (with evidence) were deleted.

So you cannot reason with the lunatic fringe.

 

[North End Bees]

BE are today offering 21% off bees

"Supplied to us from an associated company in Northern Ireland, they are received into Northern Ireland from Italy and after the bees have been health checked by a government appointed vet, they are re boxed into hives, fed and allowed to fly."

 

[Apple]

BE are today offering 21% off bees

"Supplied to us from an associated company in Northern Ireland, they are received into Northern Ireland from Italy and after the bees have been health checked by a government appointed vet, they are re boxed into hives, fed and allowed to fly."

Well ... That is REALLY in the spirit of the Law!!
But I guess this forum is not the place to discuss the morals( or lack of) any individual?

Sits back and waits in trepidation for the first reports of Small Hive Beetle or some virulent bee destroying virus

 

[Ian123]

Ok so let’s say direct imports from NI are a grey area, and if the EU think vaccines can come in that way I would think they are. What happens in this scenario. .....Mr bee equipment has a friendly NI commercial Beek, he orders Nucs from mr bee equips normal supplier taking his original order. He receives them and immediately sells/ships on to mr bee equipment for a nominal profit or retaining a couple of packages...........what laws have been broken?

I think I missed the let them fly bit

 

[Boston Bees]

I think I missed the let them fly bit

I think that bit is really nice. Gives them a chance to stretch their legs and everything. They could do some duty free shopping maybe, before continuing their journey?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well ... That is REALLY in the spirit of the Law!!
But I guess this forum is not the place to discuss the morals( or lack of) any individual?

Sits back and waits in trepidation for the first reports of Small Hive Beetle or some virulent bee destroying virus

Your second sentence is spot on.