Petition parliament ban on honey bee imports

[Ian123]

Most of us on here are against the import of bees for various reasons,

Really what makes you say that. I think the last time we had a poll here it was not in favour for a ban on imports, or at best it was 50/50.

 

[Apple]

Really what makes you say that. I think the last time we had a poll here it was not in favour for a ban on imports, or at best it was 50/50.

Bit like that EU referendum.........

Now peeps has the facts... some will not admit for voting to leave!!!!

 

[jeff33]

Really what makes you say that. I think the last time we had a poll here it was not in favour for a ban on imports, or at best it was 50/50.

Maybe I should have said mass import of bees as opposed to queen's which is what the petition is trying to overturn?

 

[Ian123]

Bit like that EU referendum.........

Now peeps has the facts... some will not admit for voting to leave!!!!

.......................well that stands for both camps, plenty of beeks haven’t even got a clue what bees are in the hives, and many calling for a ban would have just purchased spring Nucs from commercial beeks

 

[John Taylor]

Thanks for the explanation and I yes understand there would be stringent controls at the breeders end. As a general rule I have no objections to trade imports of anything but when there are excellent homegrown breeders , producers and suppliers why opt for imports? I would happily pay same price or even more for a home bred bee and have already placed an order for an AMM overwintered 5 frame to expand my colonies to 3 and am always hopeful of catching a swarm or two?
I realise that any swarm bees or bought bees could have a problem as you described that is always a risk. Recently joined my local BBKA and look forward to the summer when I can meet with some of them.

 

[Nige.Coll]

Thanks for the explanation and I yes understand there would be stringent controls at the breeders end. As a general rule I have no objections to trade imports of anything but when there are excellent homegrown breeders , producers and suppliers why opt for imports? I would happily pay same price or even more for a home bred bee and have already placed an order for an AMM overwintered 5 frame to expand my colonies to 3 and am always hopeful of catching a swarm or two?
I realise that any swarm bees or bought bees could have a problem as you described that is always a risk. Recently joined my local BBKA and look forward to the summer when I can meet with some of them.

Where did the AMM come from ?
Most are Irish or from Europe thanks to BIBBA promoting imports of those queens until recent times.
Btw the Irish are mainly dutch bees anyway over 50% if I remember right. They have a very pure AMM population but that doesn't mean they are native, Irish bees spent the same amount of time evolving in isolation as the English ones did. Kind of makes a mockery of the argument that is is ok to import from Northern Ireland but not from other countries. NI is only a part of the UK due to politics it is still a foreign country in reality. Can a bee fly there, no.
Base line of the real argument is it is fine to import AMM but not anything else even though they are genetically different to what was native here.

 

[madasafish]

Where did the AMM come from ?

Base line of the real argument is it is fine to import AMM but not anything else even though they are genetically different to what was native here.

A lack of intellectual rigour in the argument- well who would have guessed it ?

 

[Swarm]

Yep, plenty of Amm genetics here on the 'mainland' don't listen to the lies. Obviously there are areas where genetics are more churned than others thanks to businessmen deciding the fate of an insect.
Lashing out at others is silly and petulant, they didn't rain on your parade, that was down to your government.

 

[Ian123]

Thanks for the explanation and I yes understand there would be stringent controls at the breeders end. As a general rule I have no objections to trade imports of anything but when there are excellent homegrown breeders , producers and suppliers why opt for imports? I would happily pay same price or even more for a home bred bee and have already placed an order for an AMM overwintered 5 frame to expand my colonies to 3 and am always hopeful of catching a swarm or two?
I realise that any swarm bees or bought bees could have a problem as you described that is always a risk. Recently joined my local BBKA and look forward to the summer when I can meet with some of them.

Sorry John but there are pitifully few Uk breeders and even fewer that come anywhere close to breeders and breeding groups abroad. For instance can you name any that come close to say Buckfast Denmark or any of the carnica groups. Should also add that if the larger/uk breeders/rearers like Murray or say Jed Marshal I’ll think you will find the vast majority import. Why is this the case if we have an abundance of producers...Ian

 

[B+.]

Sorry John but there are pitifully few Uk breeders and even fewer that come anywhere close to breeders and breeding groups abroad. For instance can you name any that come close to say Buckfast Denmark or any of the carnica groups. Should also add that if the larger/uk breeders/rearers like Murray or say Jed Marshal I’ll think you will find the vast majority import. Why is this the case if we have an abundance of producers...Ian

If you'd care to check my profile, you'd see that I am a UK carnica breeder with links to European research and breeding groups....so....Yes, I can name one. ;-)
I do a fair bit of II but import new full-sib test queens every year. That's not because of inbreeding but we try to populate ~ 1/3 of our test colonies with stock from other breeders. It is considered "good practice".

 

[Norton]

Pre-Brexit, we had access to a system called TRACES - it tracked ALL animal movement throughout the EU (horse, cattle, sheep, bee...it made no difference). They all had health certificates and movements were notified to the Animal and Plant Health Agency (APHA) in advance, so if there were ever any doubt, the consignment could be intercepted and tested.
I receive island mated/instrumentally inseminated queens from Germany/Netherlands each year and have Certificates going back over 15 years.
We lost access to TRACES as a consequence of Brexit so, you could argue, the risk of something nasty being imported to the UK is greater now than it was before. The process was well understood before, and it worked for over 40 years.

TRACES now replaced by VET10 certificate, same general format.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If you'd care to check my profile, you'd see that I am a UK carnica breeder with links to European research and breeding groups....so....Yes, I can name one. ;-)

How many queens do you churn out in an average season?

 

[Mint Bee]

Its not great to wash your dirty linen in public but one reason I am wary of nuc sales and indeed stopped doing it is that we inadvertantly sold some nucs that a few of which seem to have been carrying sub clinical EFB (they were well inspected by ourselves and by inspectors) and at their destination were put into a high stress situation...and some time later EFB cropped up in a couple of them. No evidence at time of sale...but it seems to have been there....hence we now no longer sell nucs.

Always a concern when selling nucs.... my biggest concern has been the recent indiscriminate and completely unnecessary sale of nucs to novice beekeepers for a knock down £60 or so... collected, apparently not quarantined( timing... they would have had to have been overwintered) and sold on in an area with a high incidence of EFB

Call for compulsory registration of flocks/herds and hives!

where are these £60 overwintered nucs? Is it a Cornish thing?

 

[Ian123]

If you'd care to check my profile, you'd see that I am a UK carnica breeder with links to European research and breeding groups....so....Yes, I can name one. ;-)
I do a fair bit of II but import new full-sib test queens every year. That's not because of inbreeding but we try to populate ~ 1/3 of our test colonies with stock from other breeders. It is considered "good practice".

Yes I know who you are we have chatted, and I didn’t say we didn’t have any. But as you breed carnica I doubt your exactly what John was referring to

 

[B+.]

TRACES now replaced by VET10 certificate, same general format.

It may be a work-around but it is far from being a replacement.

 

[Apple]

Where did the AMM come from ?
Most are Irish or from Europe thanks to BIBBA promoting imports of those queens until recent times.
Btw the Irish are mainly dutch bees anyway over 50% if I remember right. They have a very pure AMM population but that doesn't mean they are native, Irish bees spent the same amount of time evolving in isolation as the English ones did. Kind of makes a mockery of the argument that is is ok to import from Northern Ireland but not from other countries. NI is only a part of the UK due to politics it is still a foreign country in reality. Can a bee fly there, no.
Base line of the real argument is it is fine to import AMM but not anything else even though they are genetically different to what was native here.

B4 has undertaken a lot of sampling of Amm using DNA analyses using various different laboratories.
Testing is quite expensive.... but fortunately has been funded by some generous benefactors.... ( NOT BIBBA related !!)
I would not like to query where the NI Amm originated from.
However on some respectable sized samples of Amm from Cornwall it would indicate that we have two distinctively different groups and both are distinctively different to any other Amm in the UK that have been sampled.

ONE THING FOT CERTAIN IS THEY ARE NOT CLOSELY RELATED TO FRENCH/ BELGIUM/ DUTCH OR GERMAN IMPORTS!!

 

[B+.]

B4 has undertaken a lot of sampling of Amm using DNA analyses using various different laboratories.
Testing is quite expensive.... but fortunately has been funded by some generous benefactors.... ( NOT BIBBA related !!)
I would not like to query where the NI Amm originated from.
However on some respectable sized samples of Amm from Cornwall it would indicate that we have two distinctively different groups and both are distinctively different to any other Amm in the UK that have been sampled.

ONE THING FOT CERTAIN IS THEY ARE NOT CLOSELY RELATED TO FRENCH/ BELGIUM/ DUTCH OR GERMAN IMPORTS!!

I'm curious how you identify these individuals you've had tested.

 

[B+.]

How many queens do you churn out in an average season?

I'm not a large-scale multiplier, if that's what you mean.

 

[Hachi]

I think everyone should just hit the pause button and reflect on the current situation and some of the statements being mooted.

1. The CONTROLLED importation of any livestock is not without risk but there are procedural processes in place to mitigate that risk.
2. Those advocating "home grown" from UK breeders, you might wish to ask where their original Q's come from remembering anywhere that requires the crossing of water to get here is an import illegal or not.
3. Everything that arrives on these shores is not necessarily at the hand of an unscrupulous individual with questionable parentage but they're not helping.
4. Ban all imports - well that just shows the depth of idiocy some behold.
5. Ban movement of bees and put a govt department in charge to manage. How will it be funded? Should we have a licensing system as in France? Having a process only limits risk not remove it.

Alot of what has been said reminds me of the vegan spitting and yelling in my face [pre-covid of course] until I looked down and reminded them they were wearing leather shoes.

Now this is likely to create a sh*t storm but so beit, its an emotive subject that sadly clouds opinion and polarises views that detracts from some pretty basic facts, We can Rant about banning this and banning that.................... but really, get real and smell the coffee, like most things there's nothing wrong with imports so long as the process of importation is followed to mitigate the risk. Have we mentioned the risk of honey imports yet

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'm not a large-scale multiplier, if that's what you mean.

Exactly, I'm not having a dig at all, just highlighting the fact that the majority of UK queen breeders are small scale and would really struggle to get halfway towards meeting the annual demand for queens in this coultry.