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RichieDug 

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I am new to beekeeping and am in the process on making two national hives for next season, I have just completed making one super using 18mm exterior plywood and soft wood for the rails....I have jointed these and using hand tools....am I wasting my time with the joints (this took a long time) or should I just butt joint everything? will boxes with butt joint just go out of square?

Any advice from experienced members apprieciated

King regards

Richard
 

oliver90owner 

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If butt joints were good enough, would they still be made to those original plans? QED.

I butt joint ekes for converting Standard brood boxes to 14 x 12, but would not want to make the whole box in such a simplistic fashion.

Most have been dropped (empty!) or lifted full of bees and stores. I would not want loose joints after 5 years. All my hives I have assembled, or made, over the last ten years are physically as good as when new.

Regards, RAB
 

admin 

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I butt joint my ply box's.
3 nails through each side bar end and 3 screw's along the ply joints,never had one colapse on me yet..
 

VEG 

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As you are using hand tools there is no problem with just butt jointing them. Just bare it in mind when handling the supers when full.
 

justme 

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OSB boxes are made butt jointed. I'm a newbee this year but have had no issues so far, Tim who came up with the OSB (Rose box) version has been using them for years, would imagine he would have chaged them if there was an issue, he has around 100 hives, all OSB.

Heavier than national supers as deeper boxes, not sure of the difference in weight of national brood vs OSB but OSB always use 12 frames.

Di:.)
 

oliver90owner 

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Sorry, I missed the 'ply' bit so perhaps less important. Are you rabetting the ends into the sides? That will give added strength. The wood version is certainly only normally nailed into end grain, although I pilot drill and screw all my joints (with looong screws!) - belt and braces, me!

Regards, RAB
 

Dishmop 

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Use glue as well.
Never was a great fan of using glue as well as screwing until I built my hives. Thought it might give a bit of waterproofing of the joints more than anything. In a rush I glued the edges of two bits together by mistake. 15 minutes later I realise what I had done, removed the clamps and tried to twist the two pieces apart. Nope. Put a piece of timber under one bit and jumped on the joint,,,,, nope,, the wood split instead.... Evo Stik Wood Adhesive.

B & Queue. Buy a box of trade screws. Mixed sizes. Often the cheapest way of buying them.
 
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RichieDug 

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I am using ply wood ends and sides not re bated, soft wood rails jointed, glues and screwd ..the joints taking up most on the build time and read of some people only using butt joints...perhaps I sould use joints on the brood boxes and butts on the supers as suppers will have to cope with winter conditions??
 

MuswellMetro 

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try

http://s64.photobucket.com/albums/h187/adamsm/Plans/

i make supers of of ply but paint the cut ends with pva exterior glue to stop them laminating,


home made brood boxs, not a fan, your bees need to be in there 24/7, i'd make a ply to start but save up for a brood box from tom Bick or Hivemaker on here as you will probably need two brood boxes the second year anyway for swarm control/combining etc

what size brood are you making, i prefer 14x12 brood boxes but others still like small hives
 

oliver90owner 

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Well I am not so far away from you and I preferred a brood and super for over-wintering. I soon changed to 14 x 12s, so only one tier in the summer and winter, which I found handy. I just felt that a standard brood was likely to run light on stores early in the spring as brooding speeded up. When I converted to OMFs, that extra depth was a bonus too - as the bees can move further away from the colder floor areas (cf a single standard brood).

I now often find my bees still need a super for brooding, during the spring build-up, even with 14 x 12s. I feel that demonstrates how much the brooding may be limited by a Q/E, for those important few weeks before the OSR flow.

Regards, RAB
 

merylvingien 

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Buy yourself a wadkin table saw, couple of hundred quid off fleabay, swap the motor out for a single phase.

Get a dado blade, make yourself a jig, you will be cutting box joints in seconds, perfect everytime!

I dont even nail, brad, or put any metal fixings in mine, they are just glued using a polyurethane glue, solid as a rock.

Jobs a gooden!
 

admin 

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On some of Adams plans the top side bars need to be deeper so the frame top bars sit flush.

Just be aware if working from them.
 

oliver90owner 

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Even a jig saw set up in a fixed position and some jigs to make reproducible cuts will save time, and if adjusted carefully will leave only the mortices needing to be chiselled out, if only using hand power tools. A router table is likely a good way to go for hobbyist batch production production. Even a circular sawcan be used quite accurately (with appropriate guarding!). I have used a band saw with good effect also.

Agreed a dado cutter or wobble saw on a spindle moulder will do the job fast, too, but they are a bit severe for a DIY.

Lots of ways around the problem with a little lateral thinking.

Regards, RAB
 

Dishmop 

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Today there is such a vast choice of cheap power tools available.

Even it you bought a router and table and had no intention of ever using it again,you should still be in pocket............

and we all know that you WILL be building a second hive....
 

psafloyd 

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Is there a definitive set of plans for national hives/nucs/etc?
 

tonybloke 

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scottish beekeepers site or dave cushmans site for plans
 

hedgerow pete 

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finger joints etc were used because there was no other way to join wood strongly.


now that we have moved out of the 18th century, joints are used more than any thing as a mark of a trades mans professional proficiency.

i can produce very strong joints with butt jointed brood box corners using top quality glue and 50mm stainless steel screws both of which are a lot cheaper than my time for my use.

most of my main hives dont even have stainless steel screws just normal 2 inch wood screws

this is the glue i use

RESINITE ,Based on urea-formaldehyde resins, once dry forms a bond stronger than the wood itself. Internal or external use. Water resistant to BS EN204 D3

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Adhesives+Sealants/Wood+Adhesive+PVA/d180/sd3198

JUST ONE NOTE BEFORE I AN SLAUGHTERED UNDER A MASSIVE PILE OF WOOD SHAVINGS BY PEOPLE WHO DO IT FOR A LIVING

I dont have a work shop full of lovely wood working tools most of my stuff is done outside in the back garden or at the allotment, nor do i have any form of wood butchery training, so i use what is avalible to best suit my working eviroment and skills
 

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