Orchard planting

[yeoldgit]

Not sure that's within the law !!!!!

Probably only applies to urban areas

 

[BoothBees]

get a shotgun - or an air rifle

I'm not sure I'd be safe handling something like that.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Not sure that's within the law !!!!!

you need to read it then - open licence for the protection of crops, also with feral pigeons, hygiene and protection of humans and farm animals from disease

 

[JamezF]

you need to read it then - open licence for the protection of crops, also with feral pigeons, hygiene and protection of humans and farm animals from disease

I have a feeling that post Chris Packham there is a requirement that you can demonstrate that you have tried humane (non-lethal) methods to get rid of them first. Not totally certain about that but I'm fairly sure the terms of the licensing were changed around three years ago.

And I'm certainly not sure where the law stands if they're considered both a pest and a food source -- so for instance it may be fine to shoot them on sight if they end up in the freezer, but you must have tried other methods first if it's for pest control.

James

 

[ldwgs]

I hadn't thought of that...

we are pidgeon city! and they cause zero issues in the Orchard, the flocks of sparrows and foxes seem to deter them they occupy the area to the east of our Orchard

 

[Swarm]

More likely depends on what/who else is in the vicinity and how safe it is to be letting fly at a few pigeons.

 

[Swarm]

Do you have any photos, ldwgs? That's a wonderful choice of planting.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I have a feeling that post Chris Packham there is a requirement that you can demonstrate that you have tried humane (non-lethal) methods to get rid of them first.

that has always been there - that buffoons interference changed very little and probably was detrimental to the welfare of the birds

More likely depends on what/who else is in the vicinity and how safe it is to be letting fly at a few pigeons.

That has always been the case, applying the principles of safe distance/direction is part of the foundation of safe firearms handling

 

[JamezF]

that has always been there - that buffoons interference changed very little and probably was detrimental to the welfare of the birds

Fair enough then. I can't say that I've ever had to worry about it. We seem to get very few pigeons here though I have no idea why. I'd quite happily "harvest" them for the freezer if we did.

James

 

[BoothBees]

Pigeon is delicious!

I do know somebody with a rifle, so I could always get him to sort them for me. This year we had him reduce the number of rabbits. They, too, were delicious.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'd quite happily "harvest" them for the freezer if we did.

but because of packham's interference, that would be unlawful, you can only cull them to protect crops or livestock (and then you can eat them)

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Pigeon is delicious!

far superior to pheasant. My grandmother always roasted them whole and stuffed, the same as a chicken. The meat is very rich though which is why pigeon pie recipes tell you to mix beef in with the breasts

 

[Frizzaldo]

Would recommend worcester pearmain, lovely eating apple.

Do you have deer nearby? These seem to love munching on the buds on young apple trees and then rutting against them later in the year. They seem to ignore willow, oak, chestnut etc.

 

[Newbeeneil]

I often use to do work for a local authority in the midlands. The guy who was my contact was an Olympic shooter so him and his mate use to get a contract regularly to reduce the local feral pigeon population in nocturnal forays using air rifles.
The railway bridge in the middle of the town was their favourite haunt and he said there could be several hundred birds perched along the steel beams of the bridge.
They would pick off a bird that would plummet to the ground and it’s neighbour would hardly notice its disappearance and just shuffle into the larger space.
When they had downed a few dozen birds they would pick them up and dump them in a small skip provided by the council before going back for the next tranche of sharpshooting.
He said that the skip never seemed to get full as the local Chinese and Indian restaurants took advantage of the free protein!

 

[Swarm]

Sounds like a lovely person.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The guy who was my contact was an Olympic shooter so him and his mate use to get a contract regularly to reduce the local feral pigeon population in nocturnal forays using air rifles.

and luckily enough, feral pigeon are not protected so no need to justify their control to packam and his ill educated mob

 

[BoothBees]

So, back on topic...

Here's an updated plan of sorts:



From what I've read, the spacing should be fine for the trees as it's more than required for the size of tree I'll be planting. (we're planning 5m spacing.) The soil depth is fine too, but I'll need to check its acidity to make sure it'll support whatever trees we choose to plant.

We're planning to plant a hedge around the perimeter of the site. (It may also go into/thorough the last horse paddock.)

The entrance to the site can be seen to the bottom left corner. Next to that we'll plant a Sweet Chestnut tree. (We really like this tree, so it's more a personal choice than for anything else.)

With this in mind, all things being equal, where on the site would you keep the hives?

Around the trees is one option I've considered. I'm conscious of how close they'd potentially be to the horses. The horses would be secure as we're installing permanent electrified post and rail fencing, so unless they suddenly become acrobats they're not getting out. The hives could also be against/under the tress farthest from the paddocks, not the ones closest.

Near the hedge is the second option I've considered, on the opposite side of the field to the horses. This means the bees will be farther away from the orchard. They'll have whatever food comes from the hedgerow that we're planting. The potential issue with this location is the proximity to the track (in brown) at the bottom of the plan, on which people and horses will be walking. The downside I see with this is that they'll be farther away from where my wife and I will spend a lot of our time, so I won't get to enjoy watching them work.

The other option is more central in the agricultural element of the land (in pale yellow), but then they may be in the way of the hay cutting activity we plan to undertake, and it feels a little exposed just there.

Wherever we end up putting them, I'll be assessing the wind on site and ensuring there's sufficient shelter in place.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

where is North? I can work out the other cardinals

 

[BoothBees]

where is North? I can work out the other cardinals

That would have been useful.

North is to the right. The entrance (in grey) is to the South.

I've updated the plan.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

This means the bees will be farther away from the orchard

they will usually fly elsewhere and ignore the stuff on their doorstep anyways, so no real need to have them amongs the trees.
It is going to take years for the fruit trees to grow big enough to be a shading issue, especially with you spacing them so widely.
Anywhere facing South or South East is good as they will get sun most of the day, facing directly Southwards will mean, unless there are big trees to the West, they will get Sun from morning until evening, I have hives in one apiary facing dead West and they do just fine as well, as they don't lose the sun until early evening in the summer.
I would put them near the North hedge, facing South (ish) so they get the sun for a good part of the day, and the hedge will give shelter in the winter, or at (or near) the Eastern edge of the orchard facing East or SouthEast, even the hives at the edge of the fruit trees can face South anyway.