Orchard planting

[ericbeaumont]

preliminary plan of the land

Have a dig through this lot before committing to your layout.

You must include aspect (sun, wind, frost, flooding), drainage, soil type, spacing of trees (relating to rootstock) and access for management.

Pdfs 012 to 21 cover orchards.
http://publications.naturalengland.org.uk/publication/19007
https://ptes.org/campaigns/traditio...rchard-practical-guides/planting-fruit-trees/

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'd also include a few damson trees - hardier and more forgiving than plums and tend to yield more consistently.
I prefer the slightly sharper fruit and they also make wonderful jam

 

[JamezF]

I'd also include a few damson trees - hardier and more forgiving than plums and tend to yield more consistently.
I prefer the slightly sharper fruit and they also make wonderful jam

Oddly enough I was thinking that a damson or two might be added to the list as I walked past ours on the way through the orchard this afternoon. Damson gin or vodka is also very pleasant.

James

 

[Bettenham]

We used Golden Delicious as a pollinator for our commercial orchards (Cox) due to it's reliable cropping year on year without a lot of care. It's not the best flavoured though imo and bruises easily. Some of the older varieties might be the the way to go as already suggested - but look particularly for scab resistance, which rules out a lot of the newer varieties anyway which can be really prone. The rootstock choice is also important. This governs your planting distances as the trees eventual size and vigour is dependant on this and will also determine if you have to provide a stake for its entire life or just a few years. MM106 might be worth considering as it is semi vigorous rootstock but will have enough vigour to put up with less than ideal growing conditions but not grow too large if you prune correctly.
Pears - I only have experience of Williams (ripens and goes over very quickly), Comice and Conference (both very scab prone) and Concorde a Comice/Conference cross. I would go for Concorde which seems a little less scab susceptible and has some of the delicious flavour of Comice. They can take a long time to crop reliably though - expect 5 years at least. Plant pears for your heirs!

 

[JamezF]

We have a Concorde pear and it is very pleasant. Also an early variety called Beth which completely failed to produce fruit this year as if I recall correctly it flowered during a cold period in the Spring when absolutely nothing was flying. And a Beurre Hardy which I'm sure must be very nice. The deer certainly like it and seem to strip the tree of fruit before we can even get near it

James

 

[fian]

Here's a preliminary plan of the land usage:

View attachment 34529

Each paddock is 1 acre large.

The area marked in pale yellow is classes as agricultural land. We can graze the horses on it or we can cut it for hay. It's on that land I plan to plant the orchard, next to the paddocks, effectively creating a productive barrier between the two. Allowing for one tree every 5 meters, planted in pairs, it's up to 48 trees.

Then all I need to do is decide where to keep the hives. Are there any disadvantages to them being under the trees?

Regardless of the trees that you finally decide to plant, do not forget to include a small portion with ornamentals (carnation, nasturtium, lily), wild (dandelion, rosemary, lavender) and small shrubs with red fruits (blueberry, raspberry).

 

[Goran]

Golden delicious apple:
Over here 2 dominant clones are " clone B" and " Reinders". Clone B ( older) is more tasty but more with russet. Reinders is more with clean skin, more attractive look but less tasty. In some orchards as I talked with producers, they say with tree age it seems fruits get more and more russet on its surface..
If You wait for strong yellow color for Golden delicious for picking time.. expect low " shelf life". Mostly is picked green colored..
It is tendency that consumers more and more are leaning to red colored apple fruits. Selling of green/yellow fruits seems is dropping..
Here is most popular one of the taste poorest apples - Idared.. Color sells it, not the taste. Here people are mocking as " national apple ( due to market presence and sale)".

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Golden delicious apple:
Over here 2 dominant clones are " clone B" and " Reinders". Clone B ( older) is more tasty but more with russet. Reinders is more with clean skin, more attractive look but less tasty. In some orchards as I talked with producers, they say with tree age it seems fruits get more and more russet on its surface..
If You wait for strong yellow color for Golden delicious for picking time.. expect low " shelf life". Mostly is picked green colored..
It is tendency that consumers more and more are leaning to red colored apple fruits. Selling of green/yellow fruits seems is dropping..
Here is most popular one of the taste poorest apples - Idared.. Color sells it, not the taste. Here people are mocking as " national apple ( due to market presence and sale)".

As a boy we had an orchard with one Red Bramley tree amongst the other varieties. It was targeted by children "scrumping". A short distance down the road there were often discarded red apples with one bite out of them.

 

[tania]

Be careful with the sycamore. We had a horse who nearly died from sycamore poisoning and we don’t think he ingested much at all as the nearest tree was a fair distance. I would get rid of it.

 

[Antipodes]

Golden delicious apple:
Over here 2 dominant clones are " clone B" and " Reinders". Clone B ( older) is more tasty but more with russet. Reinders is more with clean skin, more attractive look but less tasty. In some orchards as I talked with producers, they say with tree age it seems fruits get more and more russet on its surface..
If You wait for strong yellow color for Golden delicious for picking time.. expect low " shelf life". Mostly is picked green colored..
It is tendency that consumers more and more are leaning to red colored apple fruits. Selling of green/yellow fruits seems is dropping..
Here is most popular one of the taste poorest apples - Idared.. Color sells it, not the taste. Here people are mocking as " national apple ( due to market presence and sale)".

Have you ever come across the Jonagold? It's got an interesting flavour, kinda old fashioned!


We grow a beaut apple here in Tassie now...."Rubigold".

https://www.thetasmaniantuxedo.com/all-stories/72-rubigold-the-worlds-rarest-apple/

 

[ajperry]

I’d heartily recommend old fashioned green gauge or a clear gauge. What are you planting for wind protection, Alder is, I’m told, a good choice and not too shabby for the bees.

 

[blackcloud]

The other query.
Having the hives get sunlight and ventilation can help keep chalkbrood at bay

 

[BoothBees]

Blimey, this has been busy while I was away!

Thank you for all the comments - it's making me consider things I hadn't thought of (rootstock, wind protection, hive locations, etc.). It definitely shows why this forum is well worth being a member of.

A short distance down the road there were often discarded red apples with one bite out of them.

That would literally make me weep. I hate food wastage.

Be careful with the sycamore. We had a horse who nearly died from sycamore poisoning and we don’t think he ingested much at all as the nearest tree was a fair distance. I would get rid of it.

We've got one nearby now (we don't own the land we're currently on) and we've managed it through careful inspection and raking, but we will keep an eye on it. My wife is definitely in your camp in terms of taking it down. It's in the Green Belt though, so I'd need to check if I need permission.

We grow a beaut apple here in Tassie now...."Rubigold".

I'll take a look at that! The whole apple discussion has got me really thinking about what I want to grow. It's almost too much information. (In my line of work we call that "analysis paralysis".)

What are you planting for wind protection, Alder is, I’m told, a good choice and not too shabby for the bees.

Good point, I need to carefully consider that.

The perimeter of the site is being planted with a hedgerow, which should reduce the wind somewhat, but it's a big field, so more protection is likely to be needed. I'll take a look at Alder.

Having the hives get sunlight and ventilation can help keep chalkbrood at bay

Thanks - that's worthwhile knowing.

Thanks again everybody.

 

[ldwgs]

I'm in the process of buying 9.5 acres of land. While the primary purpose is for grazing two horses, I've secured some of the land for planting an Orchard and, possibly, a wild-flower meadow.

I'm researching various trees for planting in the Orchard and have been considering what to plant based on:

• whether I want to eat it or can use it;
• when it flowers; and
• when it fruits.

Here's a table I've pulled together for this purpose:

View attachment 34525
I've already picked out a few trees/bushes that I will definitely plant:

• Hazel - it's an early flowering tree and I have a use for them.
• Apple trees - I have uses for just about any variety, and they can even be fed to the horses in limited quantities.
• Blackthorn - it's a relatively early flowering tree and my wife wants to make sloe gin.
• Sweet Chestnut - it's a later flowering tree and the nuts are edible, though it's very large and will be planted separately to the orchard.

Based on what I've researched, or based on what you know to be good for bees and/or good for using with honey in recipes, what would you plant?

Are there any earlier or later flowering trees I should consider?

Thanks,
BB

Hi we planted an Orchard, 26 trees, surrounded by an edible fruiting hedge 1,600 whips, in January this year. Hedge: Hawthorn, Blackthorn, Hindberry ,Dog rose, Hazel/Cob Nut, Wild cherry, Cherry Plum, Elder, Rowan, adding this winter: Sambucus nigra, Prunus cerasifera,
Cornus mas, Hippophae rhamoides.
2 x Mulberry Trees: King James I. 8 x Apple Trees: Lord Lambourne , Red Falstaff. Greensleeves, Arthur Turner, Kingston Black, Bountiful, Slack Ma Girdle, Revd W.Wilkes, 2 x Pear Trees: Beth, Beurre D’Avalon, 2 x Pear Trees: Barnet, Brandy, 4 x Plum Trees: Opal, Warwickshire Drooper. 3 x Peach Trees: Avalon, Rochester. 1 x Apricot Trees, Tomcot, 2 x Cherry Trees, Stella, Lapins
2ND WAVE OF PLANTING Winter 2022
Fig Tree, Cellini, Sweet chestnut, Cobnuts, Peregrine peach and Sweetheart cherry. All trees purchased from Keepers Nursey
In a previously, devoid of insects, site on a central London council estate, Due to this years drought watered weekly and noticed an incredible rise in Bumbles, Beetles, Apis & Solitary Bees. Adding more flowering native plants as well. We researched historical London Fruit trees and suggest you do the same for myour area. EG Cellini was a tree produced in Vauxhall 1882

 

[JamezF]

8 x Apple Trees: Lord Lambourne , Red Falstaff. Greensleeves, Arthur Turner, Kingston Black, Bountiful, Slack Ma Girdle, Revd W.Wilkes

Someone have an interest in making cider?

James

 

[yeoldgit]

Here's a preliminary plan of the land usage:

View attachment 34529

Each paddock is 1 acre large.

The area marked in pale yellow is classes as agricultural land. We can graze the horses on it or we can cut it for hay. It's on that land I plan to plant the orchard, next to the paddocks, effectively creating a productive barrier between the two. Allowing for one tree every 5 meters, planted in pairs, it's up to 48 trees.

Then all I need to do is decide where to keep the hives. Are there any disadvantages to them being under the trees?

Look out for where any pigeons roost, I had to move mine as they made a hell of a mess!

 

[ldwgs]

Someone have an interest in making cider?

James

Yes we have a local micro cider brewery who exchange apples for cider or juice

 

[BoothBees]

Look out for where any pigeons roost, I had to move mine as they made a hell of a mess!

I hadn't thought of that...

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I hadn't thought of that...

get a shotgun - or an air rifle

 

[yeoldgit]

get a shotgun - or an air rifle

Not sure that's within the law !!!!!