Oh No! Not Matchsticks Again?

[charlievictorbravo]

yes RH 75% + except when there is honey being desiccated or substantially open when its 40 to 55% -note honey bees evolved with a small knot hole for ventilation and actively chose sites with entrance less than 15 sq cm. Here are some of the references .

Ellis MB, Nicolson SW, Crewe RM, Dietemann V. Hygropreference and brood care in the honeybee (Apis mellifera). J Insect Physiol [Internet]. 2008;54(12):1516–21. Available from: Redirecting
Schmehl DR, Tomé HV V, Mortensen AN, Martins GF, Ellis JD. Protocol for the in vitro rearing of honey bee ( Apis mellifera L.) workers. J Apic Res [Internet]. 2016;55(2):113–29. Available from: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00218839.2016.1203530
Doull KM. The effects of different humidities on the hatching of the eggs of honeybees. Apidologie [Internet]. 1976;7(1):61–6. Available from: THE EFFECTS OF DIFFERENT HUMIDITIES ON THE HATCHING OF THE EGGS OF HONEYBEES | Apidologie
Doull KM, Mew P. The Hygroscopic properties of different solutions of honey. Apidologie. 1977;8(1):19–24.
Seeley TD, Morse RA. Nest site selection by the honey bee,Apis mellifera. Insectes Soc [Internet]. 1978;25(4):323–37. Available from: http://dx.doi.org/10.1007/BF02224297
Seeley TD. Honeybee Democracy. Princeton University Press; 2010.

The take-away from the Doull KM. “The effects of different humidities on the hatching of the eggs of honeybees” research, for me, was “The optimum range of humidity for complete hatching of the egg of the honeybee lies between 90 % and 95 % R.H.”

Providing too much ventilation, and I know experienced beekeepers who like to keep the feeder holes in their crown boards open all summer, would appear likely to have an impact of the developmental stage of honey bees’ eggs and larvae or have I misinterpreted these data?

I can’t imagine the matchstick elevated crownboards would help to provide the elevated optimal humidity levels unless the water-carrying bees worked double tides!

CVB

 

[derekm]

The take-away from the Doull KM. “The effects of different humidities on the hatching of the eggs of honeybees” research, for me, was “The optimum range of humidity for complete hatching of the egg of the honeybee lies between 90 % and 95 % R.H.”

Providing too much ventilation, and I know experienced beekeepers who like to keep the feeder holes in their crown boards open all summer, would appear likely to have an impact of the developmental stage of honey bees’ eggs and larvae or have I misinterpreted these data?

I can’t imagine the matchstick elevated crownboards would help to provide the elevated optimal humidity levels unless the water-carrying bees worked double tides!

CVB

The honeybees are masters (mistresses) of creating microclimates within their nest, so with effort they can overcome sub-optimum conditions, and have tactics and contingency for such. For example, the very "design" of the comb cells makes the far inside of the cell almost isolated from the airflow and temperature of the gap between combs, so keeping eggs at temperature and humidity is much easier.
However, do we need to make things difficult? Do we need to do the honey bee equivalent of putting a JCB through a beavers dam?
European Apis Mellifera Honey bees express a strong preference for small entrances at the bottom of the nest. The engineering and physics say they are not wrong to do so.

 

[Erichalfbee]

My “wild” bees have two entrances. They use both in the summer and seal up the bottom one in winter

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Matchsticks not used them for thirty years. I overwinter my bees with insulation above the crown board, which stays on all year, fondant on the crown board if necessary. My mesh floor is open fully my hives sit on a stand around which I wrap a polypropylene weed suppressant blanket. This has all the advantages of fully ventilating the hive without loss of heat and subjecting the underside of the colony to any draughts especially View attachment 23967View attachment 23968from the beast from the east but also keeps the condensation low. I also have a polypropylene wrap with insulation round my non poly hives

We've both perceived the same problems and have come up with different solutions. Mine is scaffold netting around the hive stand, to reduce turbulence under the hive, with a telescopic roof made of 40mm PIR (50mm in the top) topped off with a folded aluminium covering to shed rain. This roof covers the whole of the 14x12 brood box. I keep my monitoring board in all year round but there is a gap above it at the rear of the hive to give some rear ventilation. I use under-floor entrances on my hives.

CVB

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

Derek Mitchell

Derek Mitchell of Mitchell D. 2019 Thermal efficiency extends distance and variety for honey bee foragers... ?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Derek Mitchell of Mitchell D. 2019 Thermal efficiency extends distance and variety for honey bee foragers... ?

Yep

 

[Amari]

Never too late for the matchsticks:......Latest NBU/Beebase (Eastern Region) advice, 18Feb, "Finally don’t forget to continue looking at you bees during the winter, many hives are suffering from damp and may benefit from some extra ventilation, others are a bit short of food, if this is the case, please take the time to place fondant on your colonies, wasps were particularly bad this year and continued raiding colonies right into November and you may well find despite you feeding them, that they are short of enough stores to take them through to the spring" .

 

[Erichalfbee]

I'm waiting for the next starvation email alert. Usually a good few weeks after we have all been talking about very light hives here

 

[Popparand]

On the basis of total ignorance and inexperience I wedged a piece of Celotex insulation board inside the roof of all my hives and leave the inspection trays under the omf all winter and summer too. No matches or holes drilled anywhere. The bees stay snug and have all successfully overwintered these past three years. I locate my hives so they are not exposed to too much direct sunlight after midday so they don't overheat, and in a sheltered position so they don't get blasted by cold winds. All wrong, I know, but the bees seem happy so no reason to change.

 

[Apiarisnt]

Matters are evidently different up north: Wintering bees

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Matters are evidently different up north: Wintering bees

How can you talk sense to people with clowns like that on the web

 

[jeff33]

Just so you know, I have made 'special matchsticks' for hive ventilation. I sell them for £15 a dozen and can be purchased alongside my external hive insulation..... You get a discount for joint purchase. DM me if interested

 

[Murox]

I don't think anything was being advocated ~ just ideas and options.
"It is number 3 that can cause a dilemma for beekeepers, because if the bees proplise any cracks to reduce draughts, what degree of ventilation should we provide in the hive over the winter? – the experts can’t agree! Ventilation is always necessary in order to expel CO2 and this is true also in winter. Here are some of the options for ventilating your hive,

1. Open mesh floor with or without floor insert,

2. Raising the crown board by inserting a matchstick under each corner

3. Crown board completely removed

4. Feed hole in crown board left open

5. Having differing sizes of roof ventilation holes

I suggest that you read as much as you can about ventilation and then experiment, before deciding on what technique you are happy with."

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I don't think anything was being advocated ~ just ideas and options.

Yes it was - ventilation was the only thing being advocated, it was implied it was madatory - the only options they gave was for different methods of ventilation for the reader to choose from

Ventilation is always necessary

 

[Swinton apiaries]

Do you not think it is wise to try some of these ideas and take note of your colony strength and build up after in not saying go to the extreme and end up killing your bees but climates differ to start calling some one a clone because they dont do the same as you is not necessary when they are in a different climate to you
I have started to use a top entrance after seeing Mike Palmer using them and leaving it open over winter it workes well for me and my strain of mungrels but i do not rap my hives up the same as mike as it dose not seam to show any help in my climate
I am not saying this is right for everyone or even any one elce but i am saying it works for my bees

 

[Murox]

Yes it was - ventilation was the only thing being advocated, it was implied it was madatory - the only options they gave was for different methods of ventilation for the reader to choose from

So it was - I managed to miss that elephant entirely.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Do you not think it is wise to try some of these ideas and take note of your colony strength and build up after in not saying go to the extreme and end up killing your bees but climates differ to start calling some one a clone because they dont do the same as you is not necessary when they are in a different climate to you
I have started to use a top entrance after seeing Mike Palmer using them and leaving it open over winter it workes well for me and my strain of mungrels but i do not rap my hives up the same as mike as it dose not seam to show any help in my climate
I am not saying this is right for everyone or even any one elce but i am saying it works for my bees

My “wild” bees have two entrances in their box. Each entrance is the size of a wine bottle cork. One is at the bottom snd one at the top. They seal the bottom entrance up for winter. BUT they do have a solid floor.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Do you not think it is wise to try some of these ideas

No, quite the opposite - it would be pretty unwise, that has been proven by quite a few people over the years, it has never been the case that a roaring gale through the hive is beneficial to the bees, that was just some untested fantastical theory (using fabricated data) pushed forward by Wedmore in the 1940's

I have started to use a top entrance after seeing Mike Palmer using them

difference being, Mike has a very different climate to ours and his hives spend most of the winter under a few feet of snow.

 

[drex]

In my early days I made nucs with a hole in the crown board. If they went to my mentor ( to supply newbees with nucs) they always came back with tape over the mesh over the hole. Eventually I found that my bees always completely covered the mesh with propolis. Good enough for me as I try to be led by the bees. I never use top ventilation now. Two inches of celotex in my roofs

 

[Swarm]

I try to be led by the bees. I never use top ventilation now. Two inches of celotex in my roofs

Did they send you to Jewson with a shopping list? (sorry, j/k)
Similar here but poly roofs over insulated crown boards.