Puerto Rico Bees - article in New Scientist

[Ian123]

In South Africa, varroa resistance took to 3-5 years for Apis mellifera capensis and 6-7 years for Apis mellifera scutellata, the latter having a similar post capping period to the european honeybee. Key trait is the bees uncapping/recapping worker brood where there are mites to interupt their reproduction. More info at: Analysis of Varroa destructor infestation of southern African honeybee populations

Similar is not the same!! even a small reduction in capping times will have benefits in reducing mite reproduction. BN suggested African bees developed resistance, I pointed out inherent traits already in those races that are far more prevalent than European races aid their tolerance of the mite.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6316798/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6316798/

 

[Beesnaturally]

Similar is not the same!! even a small reduction in capping times will have benefits in reducing mite reproduction. BN suggested African bees developed resistance, I pointed out inherent traits already in those races that are far more prevalent than European races aid their tolerance of the mite.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6316798/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6316798/

'Inherent traits' is, in the UK with the high, and highly variable, foreign bee population, someting of a red herring. We have all sorts of traits: the important question is: are we going to let - and perhaps help - all those (combinations) the bees find most useful in resisting mite damage rise to the top?

Or, are we going to go on importing massive numbers of bees with all but zero defences, and, are we going to maintain that state of affairs by systematically treating? (Or only treating 'when necessary' which if anything is worse)

Bear in mind that where bee populations have some resistent traits, that is likely because they have had some exposure to varroa in the context of absence of vulnerability-maintenance.

The less they get treated, the more they develop resistence. That is true of all bees anywhere.

BTW, contrary to your claim: I did not merely "suggest[ ] African bees developed resistance,". I summarised and then cited, with a link, the study that details the facts.

 

[madasafish]

'Inherent traits' is, in the UK with the high, and highly variable, foreign bee population, someting of a red herring. We have all sorts of traits: the important question is: are we going to let - and perhaps help - all those (combinations) the bees find most useful in resisting mite damage rise to the top?

Or, are we going to go on importing massive numbers of bees with all but zero defences, and, are we going to maintain that state of affairs by systematically treating? (Or only treating 'when necessary' which if anything is worse)

Bear in mind that where bee populations have some resistent traits, that is likely because they have had some exposure to varroa in the context of absence of vulnerability-maintenance.

The less they get treated, the more they develop resistence. That is true of all bees anywhere.

BTW, contrary to your claim: I did not merely "suggest[ ] African bees developed resistance,". I summarised and then cited, with a link, the study that details the facts.

My bees have some resistance: all bees in the UK have: the non resistant ones died out decades agi when varroa arrived.
Ditto bees in the EU.

SO your: "Or, are we going to go on importing massive numbers of bees with all but zero defences, " is incorrect wrt EU based bees.
As bee imports are already illegal, your point is what?

 

[Beesnaturally]

My bees have some resistance: all bees in the UK have: the non resistant ones died out decades agi when varroa arrived.
Ditto bees in the EU.

SO your: "Or, are we going to go on importing massive numbers of bees with all but zero defences, " is incorrect wrt EU based bees.

'Defences' of course come on a sliding scale, with the added complexity of different traits, and the compounded complexity of combinations of different traits.
It is possible you are right to a degree, and there is a measure of resistance in some imported queens. That will however be varied, and will depend to some degree on the approach to husbandry taken by the breeder. But would you be willing to buy a few nucs and then not treat them [1] in the belief that they will have sufficient resistance to thrive unaided? To go on not treating even as mite numbers build?

As bee imports are already illegal, your point is what?

Perhaps I'm out of date, I thought the importation of queens from EU (and other listed countries) was still allowed? It was on that basis that I was speaking of 'massive numbers'. It is of course queens only that matter in terms of resistance.

As to my point: I think I've made it about four times in this thread just today, so if its not clear to you yet I suggest you read back.

[1] By 'treat' please always take me to intend both miticide applications and any other physical action that aides the bees in their fight against mites.

 

[Steve at Westerham Beeks]

Similar is not the same!! even a small reduction in capping times will have benefits in reducing mite reproduction. BN suggested African bees developed resistance, I pointed out inherent traits already in those races that are far more prevalent than European races aid their tolerance of the mite.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6316798/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6316798/

Capping time of worker brood is interesting and we’ll take a look at that next season. Thanks for posting the research note.

Another example of the speed of resistance is in north west Wales - c8 years after varroa arrived. But this is with natural selection where the unfit bees fail - not something practised very often by beekeepers!

We don’t currently believe the capped period is the key mechanism that bees are using to manage their varroa populations.

 

[Ian123]

Capping time of worker brood is interesting and we’ll take a look at that next season. Thanks for posting the research note.

Another example of the speed of resistance is in north west Wales - c8 years after varroa arrived. But this is with natural selection where the unfit bees fail - not something practised very often by beekeepers!

We don’t currently believe the capped period is the key mechanism that bees are using to manage their varroa populations.

I didn’t intend to quote any of the previous examples in reference to our bees and varroa. They are examples of dominant traits in other races that help them tolerate Varroa, traits that were well documented before the arrival of varroa hardly show a development of resistance! I found it odd that tolerance in other races on different continents was used as an exampleSo I certainly wouldn’t expect you to believe capping times has an influence in Uk bees.
As to bees in Wales these have been quoted before, I’m yet to find any independent verification, the closest I’ve seen to any facts is the local BI noting lower than average bbka(NOT HARD)member losses. The fact they still fell into the range of BFA member returns doesn’t really mean a eureka moment and confirmation of tolerant bees.
The thought that bees with extended contact with varroa will develop to coexist is not new, read up on the Americans use of Russian Promorsky queens. Unfortunately like most claims of Varroa tolerance when field tested by independent party’s they are found wanting.
Can you give an example of independently verified examples that have been taken and run in field tests.? It’s a good job there’s many European breeders/organisations working and producing lines with tolerant traits, with the use of II and mating stations there’s hopefully going to be some progress. But then they’ll have to be imported

 

[Steve at Westerham Beeks]

There are many examples of long standing varroa resistant Apis mellifera honeybees which have been under scientific observation around Europe and North America, as I'm sure you are aware. I'll post this summary research for other readers. https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-01532364/document

The challenge for beekeepers, that are interested, is to look for the mechanisms that these bees are deploying in their own hives. You asked about independently verified examples. The closest is probably the research work of Professor Stephen Martin. He and his team have looked at Apis mellifera colonies all over the world, but also in the UK, including the (c.500) resistant colonies in the north west of Wales. This research note focused on UK beekeepers' colonies, including those that had not been treated for over 5 and 10 years. But also included treated and varroa-naïve beekeepers' colonies. They undertook the opening of 14,802 worker brood cells in their research. Good effort! Their findings are a good pointer for interested beekeepers in the UK: https://usir.salford.ac.uk/id/eprin...21_Article_ElevatedRecappingBehaviourAndR.pdf