For those interested in AMM

[B+.]

In reply to ILTD an in my own defence I only have only ever kept Cornish Amm* ( DNA tested) ILTD says" I have stated that Norman Carreck no less related his test results on black bees and ONLY the Cornish were found to be worthwhile"

[*Not exactly true as have a few colonies of Manx / open mated Cornish Amm.... in a place some 25+miles from my deep isolated valley]

This is a nuc headed by a queen raised and open mated from (itself open mated) queen I bought from B+. The offspring are very promising indeed. I was prepared to give his stock a fair look and its the same for you. If they are as you say I WANT to try them as a heather bee.

Will you do as I did, and, submit some daughters for testing?

 

[B+.]

As B+ says... the drones are the important part of the equation!

You're a bit further south than I am though Icanhopit. Your drones must be ready much sooner than mine are.

 

[For want of a better word]

You're a bit further south than I am though Icanhopit. Your drones must be ready much sooner than mine are.

I don't start rearing queens for open mating until the beginning of May. It's possible to do it before then, but, there has to be a plentiful supply of mature drones for them to mate with. Drones take 24 days plus ~2 weeks to mature, so, you're looking at ~40 days for the drones.
It's easy to see why open mated queens aren't available until June!
On the subject of reducing queen availability, what about the impact on farmers who depend on pollination from bees? It's all madness!

Hope for an early Spring... officially starts on 20th March... drones are not spermright till last week of April... all weather dependent even with II!

[/QUOTE]Will you do as I did, and, submit some daughters for testing? [/QUOTE]

Of course... but not sure the Cornish will cope with the Scottish weather or change of forage.... and ILTD would have to join BIBBA !!!

.... I would probably enjoy the 1000 mile round trip to deliver on the trusty Triumph tho!!!

Yeghes da

 

[B+.]

Hope for an early Spring... officially starts on 20th March... drones are not spermright till last week of April... all weather dependent even with II!

I would have thought your Cornish weather would have been more favourable than that. Hivemaker always seems to be a month ahead of me!

 

[For want of a better word]

I would have thought your Cornish weather would have been more favourable than that. Hivemaker always seems to be a month ahead of me!

He has Exmoor sheltering him from the South Westerlies that get funneled up the greatrgreygreenslimeytamarrivervalleyallsetaboutwithemptysecondhomes!!

Yeghes da

 

[dano41]

Have many tried the amm from the Isle of Man?ITLD have you tested any of these?I was kindly taken to a set of hives about three years ago belonging to a breeding group when on the island.They invited me when I saw them at a farm show there and while talking to them I said I would never keep black bees again because the ones I had kept were nasty wee Bast... They opened six boxes and the bees were as they had said very gentle bare arms and not a sting.

 

[Uncle Betty]

Have many tried the amm from the Isle of Man?ITLD have you tested any of these?I was kindly taken to a set of hives about three years ago belonging to a breeding group when on the island.They invited me when I saw them at a farm show there and while talking to them I said I would never keep black bees again because the ones I had kept were nasty wee Bast... They opened six boxes and the bees were as they had said very gentle bare arms and not a sting.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

at best they will be skewed by your personal Prejudice,

I think we can all see where personal preudice is amply demonstrated, way back in an earlier post

I did no such thing. You obviously have not read the thread.

You now remind me of a Bertrand Russell definition -

A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.

Or overwinter your own queens,

Or just manage colonies better so you don't need to requeen wholesale each spring

I know 20-, to 50-colony beekeepers who don't import, and are happy with their beekeeping. They wouldn't do it at a financial loss, that's for sure.
.

 

[For want of a better word]

Have many tried the amm from the Isle of Man?ITLD have you tested any of these?I was kindly taken to a set of hives about three years ago belonging to a breeding group when on the island.They invited me when I saw them at a farm show there and while talking to them I said I would never keep black bees again because the ones I had kept were nasty wee Bast... They opened six boxes and the bees were as they had said very gentle bare arms and not a sting.

I have some Manx... but hybridised with Cornish ones....

Clever cloggs the Tamar Valley " Master Beekeeper" asked me if they had three legs?

I replied yes 2 sets... one on each side!



Yeghes da

 

[B+.]

Will you do as I did, and, submit some daughters for testing? [/QUOTE]

Of course... but not sure the Cornish will cope with the Scottish weather or change of forage.... and ILTD would have to join BIBBA !!!
[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure he would want to do that. I didn't ask him to join Beebreed so why would he be asked to join Bibba?

My "native carnica" ;-) seem to have made the transition so I don't see why your. Amms shouldn't .

 

[dano41]

Could you clarify that a bit please?Does that mean that you only ever had Manx hybridized with Cornish or does it mean that you got Manx queens and bred off them?If the latter how did the Manx perform?

 

[Poly Hive]

Dano41.

Regarding hives my Amm were perfectly happy with a standard National brood box or a Langstroth. However some strains were able to utilise the bigger Glen BB which being home made could and did run to 18 or more National frames.

PH

 

[For want of a better word]

Could you clarify that a bit please?Does that mean that you only ever had Manx hybridized with Cornish or does it mean that you got Manx queens and bred off them?If the latter how did the Manx perform?

An acquaintence in Somerset bought some Manx mated queens, these put down swarm cells which were given to me, hatched in the incubator and open mated in Cornwall in a deep hidden and isolated valley that was drone flooded with Cornish type Amm

The daughters are now in hived far enough away from our mating site not to mix up genes... hybrid vigor perhaps... and good forage... took a good 60lb off of each colony ( In std WBCs as the land owner likes pretty proper looking beehives)
Appearance wise more like the smaller and greyer Manx bees I have seen than the longer blacker Cornish.

May even try some grafting from this stock next season and AI from the drones?

Yeghes da

 

[Into the lions den]

If some of the large UK beefarmers and beebreeders started to rear queens for sale they could meet the demand... be it UK bred Amm , Amc. Aml or Am anything else, at least they could bring money into our economy, rather than lining Europeans pockets... is that no what Brexit was all about?

They cant. When folk who depend on the bees for viability need the queens they are not available in sufficient numbers.

When the breeders have plenty...say in July....there is not a big enough market.

Had exactly that conversation with the biggest UK breeder this year, when we were sitting with mini nucs full of queens and not enough orders. lets us make huge numbers of nucs up however.

then you get to Sept and the 'queenless colony' (often not actually, with predictable results) panic sets in and you can sell the lot. Fortunately I now also have a client who will take all my September or even late August queens. We keep a number back for refilling failed nucs etc, but now everything has a home...its just mid summer that's a problem..the easiest time to have good queens.

I ride both the imported and the home produced horses. They are not mutually exclusive.

I have ONE order for 200 queens a week from 3rd week April to mid June. Late in the process I can do home raised, but at the start? Not a cat in hells chance, we don't even get a decent take of grafts until after that. Thus we have our own mothers in Piemonte. Can supply queens whose mothers were home raised and tested from start of April. Open mated though, so just a queen for a working colony.

Its the perennial problem with restricting bee markets to local. When folk want them you don't have (similar conditions for all) and when you do have them the market has passed you by.

Only other way is develop a niche market all of your own when folk are willing to wait, and perhaps not get a crop first year if you have to wait too long. Hivemaker always having a market for every queen is such an example.

 

[For want of a better word]

Possibly we need to re-educate the beekeepers into a different buying regime?

Mean time I am going to go for that "niche" market.

Yeghes da

 

[mbc]

I live in an area where, given 3 generations or so, everything reverts to black. .

This is the case for most of Britain and for me is the strongest argument for working with Amm, breeding anything else is working against nature and doomed to failure without continuous AI.
I hear your arguments about queen availability timings, everyone tries to get in on the early orders! For myself, all the early queens are used by myself to requeen big production colonies for a reason you've touched on before, management changes with a current year queen, they don't require any swarm checks, this also diminishes the value of overwintered queens, with the best will in the world they don't quite behave the same.

 

[Finman]

Possibly we need to re-educate the beekeepers into a different buying regime?.

Yeghes da

Who is the possible seller ?

 

[For want of a better word]

This is the case for most of Britain and for me is the strongest argument for working with Amm, breeding anything else is working against nature and doomed to failure without continuous AI.
I hear your arguments about queen availability timings, everyone tries to get in on the early orders! For myself, all the early queens are used by myself to requeen big production colonies for a reason you've touched on before, management changes with a current year queen, they don't require any swarm checks, this also diminishes the value of overwintered queens, with the best will in the world they don't quite behave the same.

Bit of a bold statement..... this last season the NZ Aml were swarming/ superceeding all the time... caught a good few of the requeened colonies as I had taken care to clip the queens... can not remember a worse year for NZs
The Carniolians tended to be swarmy, but for Surrey were good allrounders!

Yeghes da

 

[Finman]

.
I bought in May 5 new queens from Italy, and 4 of them swarmed after a month.
The workers, where I put queens, were very sure swarmers. But rule that a newly mated Queen does not swarm, do not be so sure.

Wings were clipped and queens vanished.
.

 

[Lancs Lad]

.
I bought in May 5 new queens from Italy, and 4 of them swarmed after a month.
The workers, where I put queens, were very sure swarmers. But rule that a newly mated Queen does not swarm, do not be so sure.

Wings were clipped and queens vanished.
.

Finny
After loosing 4 out of 5 Italian Queens, you definitely need some Rufty Tufty AMM.