Ley-lines and bees

[oliver90owner]

. A long period between "today" and "tomorrow"

So? Your point?

You do not know that the planet has been around for about 3 1/2 billion years and it has taken all that time before humans were invented? We are not even a drop in the ocean as compared to the Universe.

Most used to think SETI were a load of cranks and that we were the only 'life' in the whole cosmos.

Nobody new we were moving away from the north american continent until a very few years ago. There is still a lot to learn of our own tiny planet, let alone the wider view of space.

Einstein's theories are the best we have and they are only about a century without major changes to his works (although I think there may be yet further developments in my lifetime).

What will happen to all this information, when the next mass-extinction occurs? That is if the human race is here when that happens.

Yes, still lots we don't know or understand. And lots out there who don't want to understand. They are the ones that stick their heads in the sand, as the saying goes.

 

[Excession]

Actually I would argue it's the ones who refuse to believe in nonsense without evidence are the ones who search for the answers and make the discoveries.

Not the snake oil salesmen and the quacks....

 

[Ely]

Actually I would argue it's the ones who refuse to believe in nonsense without evidence are the ones who search for the answers and make the discoveries.

Not the snake oil salesmen and the quacks....

 

[Dishmop]

Actually I would argue it's the ones who refuse to believe in nonsense without evidence are the ones who search for the answers and make the discoveries.

....

Thats only applicable to those people who realise that they have the knowledge to understand that they are capable of thinking.

When I was in hospital I called a nurse (care asssitant) to tell her my drip was empty. She looked at it and said "oh I wonder why that is?"

 

[user 6228]

Its the dowser moving the rods not the "force"
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/debunking-dowsing-5028261/
but its quite possible that people find water through unconcious integration of features in the landsape, and through the ideomotor effect, express it by moving the rods.
ideomotor effect is you think and your muscles move without concious thought.

One great example is riding a bicycle... most people dont know how they ride a bicycle or have inaccurate theories.
The truth is : At slow speeds you turn the handle bars in direction you want to go, at higher speeds you apply pressure in the opposite direction. A lot of people think they lean round the corner. While the bike and person does lean over, that's not the mechanism, thats the result, not the cause.
The "leaning," that most people think they are doing, is dropping the inside (to the turn)shoulder, which has the effect of pressing handlebars counter to the direction of turn.
We even think riding a bicycle is simple..its not! Its a complex multi-mode operation. Much more complex than driving a car.

That dowsing can work is simple, your subconcious mind knows the hints for water, the hands move when the hints are strongest.

That you can have subconcious skills, that your concious mind doesnt have to the same level,or not at all, is pretty obvious to any who have played golf, archery or stayed alive while commuting on a motorbike.

 

[madasafish]

. A long period between "today" and "tomorrow"

So? Your point?

You do not know that the planet has been around for about 3 1/2 billion years and it has taken all that time before humans were invented? We are not even a drop in the ocean as compared to the Universe.

Most used to think SETI were a load of cranks and that we were the only 'life' in the whole cosmos.

Nobody new we were moving away from the north american continent until a very few years ago. There is still a lot to learn of our own tiny planet, let alone the wider view of space.

Einstein's theories are the best we have and they are only about a century without major changes to his works (although I think there may be yet further developments in my lifetime).

What will happen to all this information, when the next mass-extinction occurs? That is if the human race is here when that happens.

Yes, still lots we don't know or understand. And lots out there who don't want to understand. They are the ones that stick their heads in the sand, as the saying goes.

We are STILL the only discovered life in the Universe.

Of course there is lots to learn.
When I did my Physics degree, it was clear we knew little, the transistor had just been invented - as had the laser.. and look at the changes.

NONE of the above mean leylines exits.

None.


And the evidence for leylines is in my view not helped by some writers who cannot write well- I read Harding , tried and failed. (I have been trying on and off for 45 years.)

If it's not replicable , then it's not true.

See Cold Fusion.. another so called breakthrough which people got excited about.

Next thing you'll be telling me you believe in ghosts - about as credible as leylines.

 

[oliver90owner]

No, but we continue to come across the perpetual motion scams. We see the next round of teapot wind turbines for fitting to urban houses, then we see the companies withdraw or likely go bust.

''Still the only discovered life in the universe''

Yes, but only because of our shortcomings. Yes, but who says so?. Mathematically, we are counting one planet of one - the one where we actually are. That tells me something, even if you haven't noticed the irony of it - not exactly a random sample of the total population, is it? How many stars in our galaxy, how many galaxies in the universe? That is without counting planets and potentially satellites as well. The mathematics of the sample rate of the total population is not exactly robust!

Further, of course, there are possibly millions of life forms already swallowed by black holes, destroyed by supernovae, etc, etc.

We are only likely to ever (in our lifetimes) to come across intelligent life clues of long gone examples (or if aliens descend upon us). Unintelligent life-forms may be more easily identified in the foreseeable near future.

I am a realist. There will be lifeforms out there somewhere. Why should life on this planet be so unique? Explain that one with 100% burden of proof.

When you did your Physics degree they already thought they knew a lot, but even then science was well aware that they did not know everything. The same applies today, just as it did then. Except that we now know more than then.

 

[rolande]

I know a guy who was paid by the NBC for locating unmarked mine shafts . He used a crystal on a string in conjunction with o/s maps .

Lots of people on this forum with experience of dowsing, experience I'm not prepared to argue with because I don't know one way or the other.

What I'm interested in hearing about is how my bees will be better than they already are if I go to the trouble of getting someone to find a ley line (I wouldn't trust myself to do it because I've got no back-history to compare results to). What difference will there be between my randomly placed hive compared to having it relocated onto a ley line?

 

[Ely]

The difference between discovering the unknown theories of the universe that Rab is talking about and ley-lines is- The idea of ley lines has been around for so long that if it was credible, we would have scientific backing by now. If science has managed to decode DNA I'm pretty sure it could have figured out straight line nonsense if it existed

 

[Excession]

I would be surprised if we are the only life in the universe, however we are the only life we can prove due to limits of our exploration.

However as interesting as all of that is, this thread is about dowsing and ley lines. Something that has been available to us to prove for a very long time, and not a shred of repeatable reliable evidence...

If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it is a duck!

But most people refuse to be sceptical and only accept reinforcement bias.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

We are only likely to ever (in our lifetimes) to come across intelligent life clues

To be honest, I sometimes struggle to find evidence of intelligence on earth - let alone other planets

Unintelligent life-forms may be more easily identified in the foreseeable near future.

Which brings us back to my previous statement

 

[madasafish]

I would be surprised if we are the only life in the universe, however we are the only life we can prove due to limits of our exploration.

However as interesting as all of that is, this thread is about dowsing and ley lines. Something that has been available to us to prove for a very long time, and not a shred of repeatable reliable evidence...

If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it is a duck!

But most people refuse to be sceptical and only accept reinforcement bias.

As I said above, if you replicate something then it's true.

If it cannot be replicated it's BS.

Leylines have been around at least 80 years - probably longer - and if there was scientific evidence for their existence, it would have been published now.

(It cannot be magnetic as magnetic anomalies are used in geophysics,,, so it must be a new undiscovered form of mind control. Telepathy has been debunked in scientific experiments. so it cannot be that either.)

 

[oliver90owner]

No, not magnetic fields. Try this:

[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9GU3XpiepM[/ame]

A relatively powerful at-a-distance force (so a 'force field').

Now consider all the water movements below the surface of our land and you might just conceivably begin to understand that force fields can and do exist.

That tap has a miniscule flow, yet electrons are clearly being stripped away such that the water is charged and can be deflected. Mutiply that by a huge number and it is easily understood that the field caused by the local water movement, at whatever depth it may be, will upset whatever equilibrium would exist, had the water not been there.

The reason for the charge is simply that electrons have been stripped from the water flow, so it is positively charged. Of course, those electrons will eventually be replaced, but will be different ones than the original. That means that in some way or another, there must be a circuit to restore neutrality. Electric charges are a powerful force and attract opposite charges very strongly.

Ley lines were invented in the earlier part of the last century but that was only a rediscovery of past activities where the ancient monument sites had been specifically chosen by those who knew of these force lines many centuries previously. A case of cart before horse, or is it thebothervway round.

Further than that, I cannot explain it, but there are so many on here that can dowse, it is not surprising that ancient cultures did exactly the same and they were the first to use the sites where these force fields intersected. There will be other (perhaps of lesser force field interruption) where other monuments will have been erected. So nothing to do with ancient monuments initially. They are simply the result of the former knowledge.

 

[oliver90owner]

No, not magnetic fields. Try this:

[ame="www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9GU3XpiepM"]bending a water stream using electrostatic charges - YouTube[/ame]

A relatively powerful at-a-distance force (so a 'force field').

Now consider all the water movements below the surface of our land and you might just conceivably begin to understand that force fields can and do exist.

That tap has a miniscule flow, yet electrons are clearly being stripped away such that the water is charged and can be deflected. Mutiply that by a huge number and it is easily understood that the field caused by the local water movement, at whatever depth it may be, will upset whatever equilibrium would exist, had the water not been there.

The reason for the charge is simply that electrons have been stripped from the water flow, so it is positively charged. Of course, those electrons will eventually be replaced, but will be different ones than the original. That means that in some way or another, there must be a circuit to restore neutrality. Electric charges are a powerful force and attract opposite charges very strongly.

Ley lines were invented in the earlier part of the last century but that was only a rediscovery of past activities where the ancient monument sites had been specifically chosen by those who knew of these force lines many centuries previously. A case of cart before horse, or is it thebothervway round.

Further than that, I cannot explain it, but there are so many on here that can dowse, it is not surprising that ancient cultures did exactly the same and they were the first to use the sites where these force fields intersected. There will be other (perhaps of lesser force field interruption) where other monuments will have been erected. So nothing to do with ancient monuments initially. They are simply the result of the former knowledge.

 

[madasafish]

If water's electrical charges were susceptible to being found by divining, I would logically assume diviners in a house would be able to find the location of every wire which carries current in the building. And they would presumably overload their faculties when they are near hydroelectric pylons and cables which carry huge currents.

They don't.

I read that theory in the 1930s book in 1968. There was zero demonstrable proof.. and there is still none.

If human faculties can detect minute electric currents, they would be unable to use mobile phones which are placed closed to teh brain - where I assume the receptor is.


There are lots of real life examples of currents of falling water being displaced by the application of electric currents. There are none about humans being able to receive minute electrical currents.


Modern science requires proof: all you have shown is irrelevant to your claims..Rather like David Icke and lizards then.

 

[user 6228]

No, not magnetic fields. Try this:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9GU3XpiepM

A relatively powerful at-a-distance force (so a 'force field').

Now consider all the water movements below the surface of our land and you might just conceivably begin to understand that force fields can and do exist.

That tap has a miniscule flow, yet electrons are clearly being stripped away such that the water is charged and can be deflected. Mutiply that by a huge number and it is easily understood that the field caused by the local water movement, at whatever depth it may be, will upset whatever equilibrium would exist, had the water not been there.

The reason for the charge is simply that electrons have been stripped from the water flow, so it is positively charged. Of course, those electrons will eventually be replaced, but will be different ones than the original. That means that in some way or another, there must be a circuit to restore neutrality. Electric charges are a powerful force and attract opposite charges very strongly.

Ley lines were invented in the earlier part of the last century but that was only a rediscovery of past activities where the ancient monument sites had been specifically chosen by those who knew of these force lines many centuries previously. A case of cart before horse, or is it thebothervway round.

Further than that, I cannot explain it, but there are so many on here that can dowse, it is not surprising that ancient cultures did exactly the same and they were the first to use the sites where these force fields intersected. There will be other (perhaps of lesser force field interruption) where other monuments will have been erected. So nothing to do with ancient monuments initially. They are simply the result of the former knowledge.

All that is happening with the water in the demo is an induced charge in the water as its conductor and is formed of polar molecules. See electroscope... no electron "stripping". The charged rod creates an opposite charge in the surface of the water this creates an electrostatic attraction. There is nothing here which leads on to "earth currents". The movement of the water is a red herring. It has nothing to do with the magnitude of the force.
You can get interesting phenomena with electrostatics.(see electrostic overcompensation here is an application http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/0304-3886(81)90045-0), . but placing them inside a earthed moderately conducting substrate (.i.e in the ground) removes all potential (geddit ) for interesting stuff to happen


edit(removed earthed as even thats not neccessary)

 

[user 6228]

lets do some back of the envelope calcs to see if electrostatics can be the force.

assume a force of 0.1N is required to move the dousing wires, the water is 2 metres a way then by coulombs law the charge needed is going to ~0.6 Coulombs.
The capacitance of the human body is around 1 microfarad...
that means you need about 600 kilovolts ... ouch!

and there is another problem .. the wires would not cross they would just point to electric charge...

 

[Tremyfro]

Some of you are so pedantic. What on earth makes you think the human can't detect electrical currents? How do you think you move, think, speak, hear, feel? The whole human body works on electrical currents passing along the neurones. Some people 'hear' better than others, some people 'see' better than others, some people 'feel' things better than others, some people 'move' better than others. It all works the same for each of us but these 'senses' are better developed in some people. Take ballet for instance.....can we all dance beautifully to Swanlake? No we can't and it isn't just a matter of practise. Some people can sing opera....can we all sing opera...no we can't ....and it isn't a matter of practise. Some skills are not repeatable. Some of us have skills incomprehensible to the rest of us. It doesn't mean something doesn't exist just because ...you ...as an individual can't understand or do it. There are some things in this world you just have to accept...as is....

 

[Swarm]

If there is no app for it, it doesn't exist.

 

[user 6228]

Some of you are so pedantic. What on earth makes you think the human can't detect electrical currents? How do you think you move, think, speak, hear, feel? The whole human body works on electrical currents passing along the neurones. Some people 'hear' better than others, some people 'see' better than others, some people 'feel' things better than others, some people 'move' better than others. It all works the same for each of us but these 'senses' are better developed in some people. Take ballet for instance.....can we all dance beautifully to Swanlake? No we can't and it isn't just a matter of practise. Some people can sing opera....can we all sing opera...no we can't ....and it isn't a matter of practise. Some skills are not repeatable. Some of us have skills incomprehensible to the rest of us. It doesn't mean something doesn't exist just because ...you ...as an individual can't understand or do it. There are some things in this world you just have to accept...as is....

Fine then its the person moving the rods not the "force" ... however, static charges requires a sense organ on the outside of the body(comes from having a body full of conductive fluids). and a powerful enough signal to overcome the distance and medium... We dont seem to have either. Detecting currents means we would need to be in conductive contact with the phenomena (as in fish). People seem to do this with rubber wellies so that doesnt seem to be on either