Is this the impression your members wish to make?

[CB008]

I am on the point of taking up beekeeping and came across this forum when I was looking for feedback on the Omlet Beehaus which had a special section. The impression created made me consider forgetting beekeeping altogether as your correspondents appear to be sneering, both small and closed minded and determined to keep their hobby for themselves. I would hazard a guess if they looked around their local association they would find a fairly aged membership which is exactly how it will stay unless a new generation is attracted.
I looked at Omlet as I own one of their chicken houses which 95% of owners would say are excellent, very cost effective and have bought many, many new people into chickens. Your correspondents also appear not to be able to count when they laugh at the price of the Beehaus. Perhaps they should open a Thornes catalogue and add up the cost of a new wooden hive plus smoker, total suit, hive tool etc; they would soon find that the true cost is actually very, very similar. I am responsible for using sales and marketing in order to keep 300 odd people in gainful employment so why Omlet’s marketing is sneered at is beyond me.
As a final point, the suggestions seems to be that keeping one or two hives in a private garden is contemptible, a rooftop hive is laughable, and real beekeepers have loads of hives in a special apiary (and they display their badges after their name in terms of hive numbers). So – is this the impression that you really wish to make? If you do not believe me then start at the beginning of the Beehaus forum and read every entry from start to finish.

 

[Tom Bick]

Welcome to the forum CB008
Yes I suppose you may well come to that opinion if you read that thread and I have to admit not to being a fan of the omlet but it has its fans.

I think if you are thinking of starting with beekeeping then perhaps you should think in the terms of £1000+ for all the equipment you may require in time the hive and smoker is only the start you can of course do it all for a few hundred pounds.

I also think its perhaps best that you start on the road of beekeeping start to learn the craft understand the life cycle of the honey bee and in 18 months re visit this thread and see if you still think the same.

Good look

 

[Poly Hive]

Lets start with location.

I have never advocated to beginners keeping bees in their personal space due to the inherent dangers of so doing.

I said on the Beehaus forum on I think the first week that comparing bees to chickens is not the same thing at all. The worst that chickens can do is peck your ankles whilst bees can kill you.

I have no issues with a roof top apiary as they are effectively an out apiary and if the bees get upset and out of control three or more stories up then it's no big issue in the surrounding gardens.

Age. I am 55, and started when I was 33. I found that yes most of the Association members were older than I was and yes quite a few had closed minds. So what is new there? Many occupations have the same issues.

As for hive numbers. The national average in the UK is roughly 3.

I find the hive number showing on a posters info useful. For this reason.

One hive per year = 1 hive year experience. Thus a person with 100 hives gets in a year 100 times the experience of that one hive keeper.

I will pay vastly more attention to advice from someone with 2k colonies than to the person with two.

Lastly you seem piqued that the Beehaus is not taken so seriously.

The answer to that one is the last thing beekeeping in the UK needs is yet another hive. There are far too many types already. And every odd year someone invents another ego hive. When I attended my first beekeeping course the Lecturer said "for goodness sake do not invent another hive."

I have kept that in mind ever since, and you will never ever see in a publication the "Watt" hive.

There was a certain amount of wry amusement at the advertising and as everyone knows advertising is often crude, blatant and derided. So why should a campaign for a hive be treated any different.

I am sorry that you find this forum so useless, but perhaps there is a wee prejudice lurking in this ever so open mind?

Odd that every day or so another five members join up and I expect the very respectable membership number to cross the 2k line in the next two weeks.

Good luck to you with your new hobby, but dinna kick us for not applauding the Beehaus.

I do hope you are planning attending some serious courses and reading some serious books as bees are not toys. Just a finial reminder, they can and DO

KILL.

PH

 

[Heather]

Not at all.CB008.
Many of us keep bees in our own gardens-and waste lots of time just watching them work..
If we all stuck to the one type of hive we would be very boring. A few are rude but the majority are very supportive and helpful.
Each to his own. Maybe we are precious about what we have. I love WBC - but some think I came out of the ark with that thought!! So I confuse myself sometimes by having Nationals too. ( senior moments)
Never seen a beehaus hands on. Maybe more out apiaries should have an example one to demo to new people all the possibilities. Just a bummer if there is a queen problem- to donate frames.
Stick with us- most are helpful and Admin sits on the few rude ones- as do some others!!
And welcome
Heather

 

[grizzly]

Hi CB008

As i am on my lunch i admit i have only looked through the first 4 threads on the omlet, and i have not noticed anything untoward, what you also have to remember with this forum is there is a lot of subtle banter along with some in your face comments, there is a rivalry between those who for example use the standard wood and those who use Poly, you can see that going on in posts all over the forum.

There is a good mix of Beekeepers on here and also ages, i myself am open to any form of equipment, i have Cedar Langstroths, but just this week took delivery of my first Poly hive which i am pleased with and am looking forward to testing out.

I would also consider a Beehaus, but when i have enough to buy a top of the range peice of equipment such as this.

So all i will say is get to know the users and their character, then re-read the posts.

All the best.

 

[peteinwilts]

I am one of last years newbies, but found this forum and looked at many varieties of hive and went with what I found to be right and sensible for me.

Quite a few of the beekeepers on this forum has been around for quite a while (no offence!) and have found what is good for them and stuck with it.

Sensible advice can only really be given through experience. The Omlet is new and therefore advice through extensive experience cannot be given.

I have an open mind about the Omlet. I see the fading childrens toys in the garden which is brittle and have concerns over long term use.... only time will tell.
However, as with all new technology you need some people to spearpoint the technology. Until then as with all new technology it will be doubted and ridiculed until proved otherwise.
On the flipside, not all new technology is a success and the majority of new inovations fall flat on their face. (Betamax, OS2, VLB, steam powered cars etc!) On the other hand many are huge success's.

If you chose to spearpoint a new technology you should make your own mind up and go with it. You should not however critise other peoples opinions (good or bad), for if you do they will not give it and all us newbies will not benefit from the majority of good advice through experience.
A book is one persons experience, right or wrong, an opinion is an opinion, right or wrong. You will have a lot of conflicting advice whereever you go and whatever you do but 'at the end of the day' you have to go with what just feels right to you.

 

[Brosville]

Heavens, no time for pussyfooting...... there are umpteen companies out there who will charge you an arm and several legs for overpriced old rubbish, plastic and otherwise - this forum is actually remarkably tolerant and a very broad church, encompassing as it does everyone from the dyed in the wool "chemicals for breakfast" brigade, through to "top bar hive nutters" like myself.......
Personally wouldn't be seen dead with any plastic housing for any animal, and to my mind it has several drawbacks (not least on purely aesthetic grounds) - I also think it's ludicrously expensive, but the choice is a free one.........
I'd also question the whole expense thing - I have two thriving hives of bees, and most of the equipment I'll ever need for a total outlay of around £100...
The other great thing is that this forum is largely uncensored, and if people have strong feelings on a subject, they're not afraid to say what they're thinking (unlike certain other bee fora that are censored to the hilt to maintain the party line)
A particular company got a lot of backs up with their "free" advertising plugs on the BBC, and giving the impression that beekeeping is yet another "lifestyle hobby" (whatever that may be) that can be indulged in as a passing peccadillo............

 

[Frisbee]

I think you will find CB008, that most hobbies these days have their own dedicated forums on the internet, and on all of these forums you will find knobs, bigots, self appointed gurus (thanks HM) and know-alls. The trick is to sift through the proverbial c**p, find out who you need to ignore and get on with it. You don't have to be a member of any forum, finding all your knowledge from books, local associations and a helpful mentor was the way forward not too long ago and frankly if finding this forum sneering and small minded is putting you off beekeeping then you can't be all that keen to start it :-

I am on the point of taking up beekeeping and came across this forum when I was looking for feedback on the Omlet Beehaus which had a special section. The impression created made me consider forgetting beekeeping altogether as your correspondents appear to be sneering, both small and closed minded and determined to keep their hobby for themselves.

Beekeeping associations the length and breadth of the country welcome newcomers with open arms......not too sure why you have picked on us. You could easily join the B. B. K. A. forum and be fairly quickly told to search for an answer when you have asked the question which has been asked a million times before. On here you will generally get a courteous reply, unless you come in with guns blazing of course.

I am responsible for using sales and marketing in order to keep 300 odd people in gainful employment so why Omlet’s marketing is sneered at is beyond me.

Personally I find Omlets marketing.......calling beekeeping "fun and easy" a little hard to swallow, when I was a beginner I found it neither of those things. These days I would call it rewarding and satisfying. I don't keep my bees in my garden. I don't have a garden for one thing. Knowing what I know now, a few years down the line, it wouldn't be something I would responsibly recommend to a beginner. However Omlet are trying to sell hives, I would be just trying to help someone keep bees.

Frisbee

 

[oliver90owner]

CB008,

Sounds to me like a quick hello and goodbye!

I post far more on here than on the omlette forum, but I, like several others on this forum, have an example of the plastic beetainer. Let's be plain an simple here: it is a plastic variant of a not-so-popular hive format that has been ressurected over the last 40 years and developed as a plastic variant over the last couple of years.

Similar formats have been used for many-a-year previous to the wooden offering - The Dartington Long Deep Hive. The basic format is still in widespread use in certain parts of the world, no doubt.

I also have and use two Dartington hives. These are among the various formats I have used over the years. I quite like them but they do have some inherent down-sides.

I have furnished my list of points to the manufacurer regarding my first impression of the plastic version, and I am yet to colonise it - there are still some modifications to make and it is still too early in the season for any spare colonies.

It is a beetainer. It may work as well as my wooden Dartingtons. Probably no better.

My Dartingtons cost around a ton to source the parts and some time to manufacture. I could make 4 hives for the cost of the one plastic one. Probably more as I can source the materials much more cheaply if I don't actually need to get on with the project. That said, there is a time element, but it happens to be one of my hobbies, so no great deal there.

Perhaps you might be somewhat blinkered, if you think that the beehaus is the answer to all beekeepers' prayers. It most certainly is not.

You might want to look at other formats and get a much better idea for comparison of the different formats.

You might like to look at the plastic hive which a company recently started importing from Turkey. Only a quarter grand, that one.

Further, your choice of words ('contemptible', for example ) is rather unfortunate. I am renowned , on the forum, for speaking plainly but at least I get the correct wording nearly all the time.

I actually keep colonies in my residential garden. But I am fully aware that only some bees are suitable or that purpose. I am fully aware that there may be problems with a hive at any time in the future. But I have the job covered. I have alternative locations available and in use for that very reason. For some, I would say 'foolhardy' might be a better word.

The Dartington was developed for rooftop use so I can see no reason for you making the comment you did. It is your knowledge, or lack of it, on the topic which is laughable, I might suggest.

BTW the approx 100 quid for materials for the Dartington included several extra elements that are not included with the plastic offering.

Sorry, if most on this forum actually keep bees, and in sensible numbers of colonies.

Try this for maths. When you want another colony, how will the price of a wooden hive from Thorne, or a polystyrene hive from Modern Bekeeping, compare to the purchase of a further beehaus? True cost is about third or perhaps less, so please get your facts right.

RAB

 

[Melbourne12]

I am on the point of taking up beekeeping and came across this forum when I was looking for feedback on the Omlet Beehaus which had a special section. The impression created made me consider forgetting beekeeping altogether as your correspondents appear to be sneering, both small and closed minded and determined to keep their hobby for themselves. I would hazard a guess if they looked around their local association they would find a fairly aged membership which is exactly how it will stay unless a new generation is attracted.
I looked at Omlet as I own one of their chicken houses which 95% of owners would say are excellent, very cost effective and have bought many, many new people into chickens. Your correspondents also appear not to be able to count when they laugh at the price of the Beehaus. Perhaps they should open a Thornes catalogue and add up the cost of a new wooden hive plus smoker, total suit, hive tool etc; they would soon find that the true cost is actually very, very similar. I am responsible for using sales and marketing in order to keep 300 odd people in gainful employment so why Omlet’s marketing is sneered at is beyond me.
As a final point, the suggestions seems to be that keeping one or two hives in a private garden is contemptible, a rooftop hive is laughable, and real beekeepers have loads of hives in a special apiary (and they display their badges after their name in terms of hive numbers). So – is this the impression that you really wish to make? If you do not believe me then start at the beginning of the Beehaus forum and read every entry from start to finish.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94wdRDWX5Lo&feature=related

 

[Annrbel]

I am absolutely convinced that my way, which is the WBC is right, but am interested in the top bar. I am also completely convinced that my way of keeping bees is better than everyone elses. BUT I am equally convinced that I need to listen and do so with an open mind and then think about the counter argument, even one inelegantly presented. So I demand a forum to be free to express censure without censor, for I am free to take what I need.

So people hate the Beehaus, I'm a cedar wood fan myself, just because of so many things. All my equipment was bought new and was expensive, more so that the Beehaus, but my husband will be having a go at using marine ply for a top bar (when he gets the time). If I had chickens I'd prefer a wooden ark but friends have an Omlet which is a brilliant piece of design and fox safe too.

I don't give a stuff if you head up a multi national or you are unemployed, in animal husbandry intelligent compassion is a more important guage to determine if someone's opinion is of value, and throughout all the comments I have ever read on this forum, this is the overriding factor. So just because many hate even the thought of a plastic hive, when you want people to extol its merits, its OK, they may have valid arguments against. But if not you know to go ahead, and then you will be able to post accordingly with your experience, without ego or favour. I for one will be very interested to learn.

 

[Black Comb]

I suspect you are a troll but here goes.

The main reason you think as you do is because you are employed full time in sales and marketing. Marketing is Omlet's strength and you recognise and respect that.
However, the proof of the pudding is in the eating and many experienced beeks have doubts about it's performance cf more established hives. As Rab says, it a Dartington.

Also the responsibility angle has to be discussed. Omlet's marketing team got it a free plug on BBC1 midday news. 11 out of 10 for that. But they showed it next door to a primary school with all the children playing in the background. Not responsible IMO as even though I have kept bees for only 1 year my experience tells me next door to a primary school is not a good location. For the record I sneered at it.

I have 2 hives. One is in my garden. One is isolated in a field 'cos they sting like hell.

This forum is honest and helpful - what more do you want?

BTW, a chicken is a young hen. Anyone serious about poultry keeps hens.

 

[Midland Beek]

I am responsible for using sales and marketing in order to keep 300 odd people in gainful employment so why Omlet’s marketing is sneered at is beyond me.

There's ... marketing. And there's ... beekeeping.

 

[Haughton Honey]

BTW, a chicken is a young hen. Anyone serious about poultry keeps hens.

I thought that they were pullets? lols

Anyway, he or she appears to have gone.

Let's all

(ps. my hives are the best and nobody keeps bees better than I do )

 

[taff..]

I rate this thread 5/5.

cracking answers

 

[wilderness]

give it time

I'm sure that when polystyrene hives were first introduced the established beekeepers were equally as sceptical as they are about the Beehaus. Many years down the line, polystyrene is considered an acceptible alternative. The Beehaus is barely a year old. Give it another 10 years and it may well be widely accepted. It is too new and untried.

As others have said, bees are dangerous. The Beehaus marketing made it seem as though keeping bees was something anyone could do in their backyard.

 

[Poly Hive]

LOl wilderness most beekeepers STILL think poly is cutting edge and dangerous. And they have been in use now for over thirty years.

PH

 

[tonybloke]

I am responsible for using sales and marketing in order to keep 300 odd people in gainful employment

are all of your staff 'odd' or is it just you?

 

[Black Comb]

I thought that they were pullets? lols

Pullets are young hens (older than chickens)

Once a pullet is over one year old it's a hen.

 

[Haughton Honey]

Pullets are young hens (older than chickens)

Once a pullet is over one year old it's a hen.

Wasn't having a dig Peter......I know what you mean!