Is it time to stop importing live bees?

[For want of a better word]

It was the same offer we all received. Back in 2017, ITLD asked anyone who believed their stock may have something to offer to send him a couple of queens. I did. If you didn't, you missed an opportunity for an impartial assessment. He was pleased with mine.

Quite happy to access my own bees thank you, but then we like to keep thing local around here!

 

[B+.]

Quite happy to access my own bees thank you, but then we like to keep thing local around here!

yeah....right

 

[For want of a better word]

yeah....right

Yeghes da

 

[Anduril]

Why does this thread sound like Royston Vasey?

 

[B+.]

Why does this thread sound like Royston Vasey?

Forgive me. I googled it but still didn't understand the reference (although i gather it's some sort of tv programme?)

 

[Anduril]

Forgive me. I googled it but still didn't understand the reference (although i gather it's some sort of tv programme?)

https://youtu.be/2vFe2a29hms
My reference being local bees for local people.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Why does this thread sound like Royston Vasey?

Because I haven’t done anything about it ..... yet

 

[Anduril]

I have some of mbc's queens and I like them. Other comments by AMM Breeders make it sound like a closed shop, this will only drive beekeepers away from AMM and look for the readily available alternative. A bigger and inclusive breeding programme would be needed. It is unfortunate that ITLD didn't have the opportunity to test the Cornish bees. I was hoping to hear an independent evaluation. Ho hum!

 

[mbc]

It was the same offer we all received. Back in 2017, ITLD asked anyone who believed their stock may have something to offer to send him a couple of queens. I did. If you didn't, you missed an opportunity for an impartial assessment. He was pleased with mine.

No disrespect to Murray but why would one of the largest importers of bees want to give an impartial assessment when he's already nailed his colours to the mast here and elsewhere with regard to natives verses imports..?
And fwoabw is quite correct in questioning why one would imagine bees adapted to the long season of sunny Cornwall might thrive up North, locally adapted means that, subtle variations might make then unsuited.

 

[masterBK]

You probably know that the fictional pennine town of Royston Vasey was named after the northern "near the knuckle" comedian Chubby Brown whose real name is Royston Vasey

 

[Jimmy]

No disrespect to Murray but why would one of the largest importers of bees want to give an impartial assessment when he's already nailed his colours to the mast here and elsewhere with regard to natives verses imports..?
And fwoabw is quite correct in questioning why one would imagine bees adapted to the long season of sunny Cornwall might thrive up North, locally adapted means that, subtle variations might make then unsuited.

Perhaps there is an interaction between bee race, management style and economics that exceeds the (arguable) benefits of local bees when undergoing assessment. IIRC the oft-cited paper on local bees being better did not have honey yield as one of its parameters/criterion.
Additionally, I think most of his own stock has home bred (Jolanta) queens. I read that as the timing, volume and cost of imports being as important as race though it's open to personal interpretation.

 

[Ian123]

No disrespect to Murray but why would one of the largest importers of bees want to give an impartial assessment when he's already nailed his colours to the mast here and elsewhere with regard to natives verses imports..?
And fwoabw is quite correct in questioning why one would imagine bees adapted to the long season of sunny Cornwall might thrive up North, locally adapted means that, subtle variations might make then unsuited.

Nailed his colours to the mast! If you’ve ever spoken to Murray you will soon realise he’s a rather pragmatic individual. If he found a bee that out performed others he would use it. I would suggest the name of the bee would be rather irrelevant to him and many others. That’s the reason you would get a realistic assessment!

 

[foghornleghorn]

No disrespect to Murray but why would one of the largest importers of bees want to give an impartial assessment when he's already nailed his colours to the mast here and elsewhere with regard to natives verses imports..?
And fwoabw is quite correct in questioning why one would imagine bees adapted to the long season of sunny Cornwall might thrive up North, locally adapted means that, subtle variations might make then unsuited.

For every 1lb increase in yield across 4,000 hives is circa £15,000 extra. It would probably make sense to have the best bee strain possible. If you were going to take over 500 queens you could get any strain you wanted reared in Europe

 

[mbc]

Nailed his colours to the mast! If you’ve ever spoken to Murray you will soon realise he’s a rather pragmatic individual. If he found a bee that out performed others he would use it. I would suggest the name of the bee would be rather irrelevant to him and many others. That’s the reason you would get a realistic assessment!

Pragmatic man shoots part of his business in the foot, I think not!

 

[mbc]

I have some of mbc's queens and I like them. Other comments by AMM Breeders make it sound like a closed shop, this will only drive beekeepers away from AMM and look for the readily available alternative. A bigger and inclusive breeding programme would be needed. It is unfortunate that ITLD didn't have the opportunity to test the Cornish bees. I was hoping to hear an independent evaluation. Ho hum!

Thanks Anduril.
Although this debate may seem dogmatic I'm well aware the one thing we all have in common is that we're bee enthusiasts.

 

[B+.]

Nailed his colours to the mast! If you’ve ever spoken to Murray you will soon realise he’s a rather pragmatic individual. If he found a bee that out performed others he would use it. I would suggest the name of the bee would be rather irrelevant to him and many others. That’s the reason you would get a realistic assessment!

You are absolutely right.
ITLD operates on such a scale (5,000 on the heather plus 900 nucs going into winter) that he can have his finger in lots of pies.
I "put my money where my mouth was" and sent him a couple of queens. He was happy enough with them to ask for more. I take that as evidence that the bees I keep :
1. Perform well enough to compete with the best, even on a commercial scale
2. They are appropriate for use anywhere in the country

 

[For want of a better word]

Testing a couple of queens for the parameters and traits one seeks... in Mr McG's case megga honey production, could not as far as I can see be the start of a breeding programme.

6 sister queens as drone suppliers and four or more queen lines plus a exacting II facility.. or an isolated island free of any other honeybee species.... plus support colonies and a few thousand mating nucs, and a few more members of staff.... may just do it.

Will make an appointment and present my business plan to our bank manager.

 

[B+.]

Testing a couple of queens for the parameters and traits one seeks... in Mr McG's case megga honey production, could not as far as I can see be the start of a breeding programme.

6 sister queens as drone suppliers and four or more queen lines plus a exacting II facility.. or an isolated island free of any other honeybee species.... plus support colonies and a few thousand mating nucs, and a few more members of staff.... may just do it.

Will make an appointment and present my business plan to our bank manager.

If you had taken any interest in his proposal, you would know that isn't how he works.
If memory serves me right, he made ~30 daughters from the J5 line and sent them to one of his more northerly heather sites (which is a good test of their stamina and suitability since these were among the last bees to come home). He has since made many more and some participated in international trials. They performed well enough for him to be interested in more.

I'm not sure what relevance that paragraph about II had as these were not II queens

 

[Beefriendly]

as I do not think they would thrive in the conditions they have in the Trossacks or wherever the ILTD bees are kept.

My Cornish informants tell me they don't do very well in their local environment either. Feisty with very low honey yields are the reports I hear.

 

[SDM]

Pragmatic man shoots part of his business in the foot, I think not!

I guarantee he makes a better mark up on his U.K. mated queens. There's probably nobody in the country better placed to profit from a ban. Not to mention it would save him a few hundred hours of driving each spring
Go on , make up another excuse