Is it time to stop importing live bees?

[SDM]

Wow a lively debate.

they put forward a compelling case for breeding your own locally adapted bees.

I then use the queens if required or otherwise keep them in nucs in case i need them in the spring. Hence I have good laying queens even before the first impoerts come in in April.



Left to their own devices, most populations apparently revert to something like the AMM. Would this not be a good start /QUOTE]

You can't breed locally adapted bees. Local adaptation is a natural selection process, if you are selecting the traits you want , you can't have natural selection.

Your overwintered queens behave nothing like new season queens.

Amm a good place to start ? Seriously?

 

[Finman]

90% out of beekeepers are 2 hive owners. How do you change queens to those hives to breed genepool?

 

[deemann1]

The reason varroa jumped species was because we originally exported our bees. If we hadn't done this it may never have happened.
Ireland/ New Zealand all had a ban on bee imports but they still got varroa. There is already evidence that Varroa mites occasionally wind up on flowers. In 2000, a
USDA inspector found a live mite in a refrigerated shipment of flowers from the Netherlands...suggesting that there could be more than one way for varroa to cross country borders.
Small hive beetle has managed to arrive in countries like USA and Australia where importation of bees was banned. Initially found in areas near major ports in Oz.
Asian Hornet seems to be doing it's best to establish itself in the UK and no-one is importing them
Perhaps more than one route for an invasive species to enter a country that has little or nothing to do with importation of bees.

Varroa got to Ireland due to a man importing Italian bees

 

[Hachi]

You can buy Slovenian queens for under £15 each iirc...

I would be seriously interested in knowing where you can buy queens for that price M. I'm looking for 50 queens this season.

PM if you prefer......

 

[Ian123]

Varroa got to Ireland due to a man importing Italian bees

So not through legal imports then...So stop legal imports and let random muppets import from non authorised countries because they are desperate.

 

[Millet]

What exactly are we in danger of importing that will kill all our bees?

NOTHING..and the folk on this silly band wagon need too open ones eye or both..

 

[mbc]

What exactly are we in danger of importing that will kill all our bees?

I think the major worry not already noted above are novel varieties of pathogens we already have, dwv, cbpv, efb and afb all have different strains varying in character, some which would cause major problems to bees unused to them.

 

[mbc]

Wow a lively debate.

I am not in BIBBA but have been reading BA and watching lectures from Michael Palmer, Tom Seeley,, John Chambers and Roger Patterson and in the round find they put forward a compelling case for breeding your own locally adapted bees.

I know a commercial beekeeper with almost 1000 hives who produces his own queens from his local bees so it is possible.

I have been able to graft and rear plenty of queens without any major hassle and just having learned from youtube, so its not that difficult and not beyond anyone.
Sucess rates are approximately 50% of the grafts accepted and 50% successful matings in late spring mixed weather. I expect this can be kmproved with more practice. I then use the queens if required or otherwise keep them in nucs in case i need them in the spring. Hence I have good laying queens even before the first impoerts come in in April.

These have been more sucessful than any queens I have bought, which seem to be superseded in the autumn, but you do have to cull queens heading colonies with undesirable traits such as winter brood rearing, unreasonable aggression, running on the comb, robbing, laziness or following. Those with traits I like that perform well I give a drone frame so that they can further spread their genetics in the local population.

It seems that years ago before mass hybridisation, bees were not generally unduly agressive and most were well adapted to their environments. Left to their own devices, most populations apparently revert to something like the AMM. Would this not be a good start to work on local bees instead of continually importing them and messing up the gene pool with unsuitable genes?

 

[For want of a better word]

Wow a lively debate.

I am not in BIBBA but have been reading BA and watching lectures from Michael Palmer, Tom Seeley,, John Chambers and Roger Patterson and in the round find they put forward a compelling case for breeding your own locally adapted bees.

I know a commercial beekeeper with almost 1000 hives who produces his own queens from his local bees so it is possible.

I have been able to graft and rear plenty of queens without any major hassle and just having learned from youtube, so its not that difficult and not beyond anyone.
Sucess rates are approximately 50% of the grafts accepted and 50% successful matings in late spring mixed weather. I expect this can be kmproved with more practice. I then use the queens if required or otherwise keep them in nucs in case i need them in the spring. Hence I have good laying queens even before the first impoerts come in in April.

These have been more sucessful than any queens I have bought, which seem to be superseded in the autumn, but you do have to cull queens heading colonies with undesirable traits such as winter brood rearing, unreasonable aggression, running on the comb, robbing, laziness or following. Those with traits I like that perform well I give a drone frame so that they can further spread their genetics in the local population.

It seems that years ago before mass hybridisation, bees were not generally unduly agressive and most were well adapted to their environments. Left to their own devices, most populations apparently revert to something like the AMM. Would this not be a good start to work on local bees instead of continually importing them and messing up the gene pool with unsuitable genes?

Bee sperm?
Should also be screened for transmittable pathogenic virus, particularly when the source is probably morbidly infected.

 

[foghornleghorn]

One reason for importing queens might be that they are available earlier than locally raised queens. The solution is for beekeepers to over-winter queens in nucleus colonies, so that they are available early the following season. Pretty well every beekeeper can do this.

Other reasons might be to add more diversity or to improve the local gene pool because the local bees are not great for beekeepers. I have met bee farmers who say that the local bees are rubbish so they buy breeder queens from Denmark/Germany or wherever, and graft from those. ONE solution for this that mitigates the risk of importing pests is to import frozen semen, then use instrumental insemination to create new breeder queens from which to graft. That is beyond my skill level for sure.

Then there is disaster recovery. Imagine being a bee farmer earning your livelihood from your bees, and you get a terrible rainy summer/autumn followed by a late & cold spring. In 2012/13 this happened and many bee farmers lost over 70% of their bees. One bee farmer had 10 colonies left out of 800. In that situation, you either give up or buy in packages/queens from elsewhere.

New season queens are easier managed than overwintered queens

 

[SDM]

I think the major worry not already noted above are novel varieties of pathogens we already have, dwv, cbpv, efb and afb all have different strains varying in character, some which would cause major problems to bees unused to them.

Only if by some minute chance they were a dominant strain. Which incidentally is just as likely to mutate out of one of the UK strains.
No doubt you've often cited the " honeybee genotypes and the environment " study as proof of the superiority of locally adapted bees. Then you should accept without question that in every case it was the dominant local virus strain that killed the imported bees , NOT the other way around.

 

[Beefriendly]

I know a commercial beekeeper with almost 1000 hives who produces his own queens from his local bees so it is possible.

He would get the same amount of honey from 500 hives if he had some decent queens

 

[Beefriendly]

Only if by some minute chance they were a dominant strain. Which incidentally is just as likely to mutate out of one of the UK strains.

Spot on. The set up for breeding on the continent involves regular health checks and they must have a clean bill of health to be able to export their bees.
Far more dodgy bees are sold within the UK. There was an outbreak of EFB a few years back that was found to have arisen from one the sellers of UK mongrel bees.

 

[SDM]

He would get the same amount of honey from 500 hives if he had some decent queens

But could probably run 3000 if he had less swarmy bees lol

 

[Swarm]

I'd love to see a ban on imports, if for no other reason than to sit back and enjoy the whining

 

[sipa]

Bee breeding does not exist in the UK. Sad and embarrassing but true.
PH

I can't agree with that statement.

There are quite a few people doing selective breeding and maintaining and improving lines via instrumental insemination in the UK. We do it ourselves, but don't shout about it.
We just want to produce the best bees we can for our customers.

 

[mbc]

I'd love to see a ban on imports, if for no other reason than to sit back and enjoy the whining

The noses of a cabal on here would be out of joint, and yes, it would raise a smile

 

[madasafish]

What exactly are we in danger of importing that will kill all our bees?

Queens that are so superior that Bibba collapse.

 

[drex]

New season queens are easier managed than overwintered queens

What makes you say that? Or why?
I raise my own queens and find no great difference between those I introduce after over wintering and those introduced in the same season they are raised. I admit they do not all contain the traits I am looking for, but the " bad" are culled. Even so I can find no correlation to the season in which they are reared.

 

[Ian123]

Queens that are so superior that Bibba collapse.

I am just trying to think of major BIBBA achievements since I started keeping bees in the early 80s..............................