Is it time to stop importing live bees?

[Ian123]

I can't agree with that statement.

There are quite a few people doing selective breeding and maintaining and improving lines via instrumental insemination in the UK. We do it ourselves, but don't shout about it.
We just want to produce the best bees we can for our customers.

He’s not a million miles from the truth though that’s part of the issue. Look at the big breeding groups across Europe, the programs many US universities have. Also the simple difference between rearing queens and actual proper breeding programs. I have reared plenty from brought in breeders but others have put in the hard work for me to get a breeder queen that produces a decent queen my end.

 

[madasafish]

I would be seriously interested in knowing where you can buy queens for that price M. I'm looking for 50 queens this season.

PM if you prefer......

https://novakcarnicaqueen.com/ 16 Euros..

https://www.queen-carnica.com/en/products/ 16 Euros

 

[For want of a better word]

I am just trying to think of major BIBBA achievements since I started keeping bees in the early 80s..............................

I am just trying to think of major beekeeping achievements since the early 80s?

 

[Beefriendly]

I am just trying to think of major beekeeping achievements since the early 80s?

Loads of major bee keeping achievements since the 80's. I've listed only a few ....
Poly hives.
Effective varroa treatments.
Lateral Flow devices for immediate disease recognition.
Brother Adams achievement on his Buckfast Bee Breeding programme was academically recognised. In 1987 he was appointed Honorary doctor by the Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences, In 1989 he was appointed Honorary doctor by Exeter University.

 

[foghornleghorn]

What makes you say that? Or why?
I raise my own queens and find no great difference between those I introduce after over wintering and those introduced in the same season they are raised. I admit they do not all contain the traits I am looking for, but the " bad" are culled. Even so I can find no correlation to the season in which they are reared.

They're less swarmy

 

[For want of a better word]

Loads of major bee keeping achievements since the 80's. I've listed only a few ....
Poly hives.
Effective varroa treatments.
Lateral Flow devices for immediate disease recognition.
Brother Adams achievement on his Buckfast Bee Breeding programme was academically recognised. In 1987 he was appointed Honorary doctor by the Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences, In 1989 he was appointed Honorary doctor by Exeter University.

So you would say that any of the above were a paradigm shift in beekeeping?

Paradigm Shift
By Will Kenton
Updated Jun 27, 2019
What Is a Paradigm Shift?

A paradigm shift is a major change in the concepts and practices of how something works or is accomplished

 

[Beefriendly]

So you would say that any of the above were a paradigm shift in beekeeping?

Why would I say that Hoppy? You only previously mentioned major achievements.

 

[madasafish]

So you would say that any of the above were a paradigm shift in beekeeping?

Paradigm Shift
By Will Kenton
Updated Jun 27, 2019
What Is a Paradigm Shift?

A paradigm shift is a major change in the concepts and practices of how something works or is accomplished

German beekeepers did accomplish a Paradigm Shift from 23 years selection in W Germany . Based on 61,870 annual returns, average colony yields rose frm, 18.7kg honey in 1961 to 25.4kg in 1983. (Ruttner : Breeding Techniques and Selection for Breeding of the Honeybee..1987 Page 77 Figure 30). Book worth reading.

Shows what can be done...if you do things scientifically...

 

[For want of a better word]

A paradigm shift is a major change in the concepts and practices of how something works or is accomplished

Possibly banning importation of bees into the UK would be a major change in the way we beekeep.

Highlighting hybrid vigour in bees did not change the way in which the majority of the beekeepers in the UK kept bees, but I have to agree that bee improvement by the way of Brother Adam, continues today, even at Sherberton on Dartmoor, although sadly it may not be as isolated beewise as it was in the days of Brother Adam's days at Buckfast Abbey!


You should give retreat a go... if you can put up with all the schizophrenics !

 

[Hachi]

https://novakcarnicaqueen.com/ 16 Euros..

https://www.queen-carnica.com/en/products/ 16 Euros

Brilliant thank you

 

[foghornleghorn]

Brilliant thank you

Slovenian carnies can be very swarmy, buckfast is safer

 

[Ian123]

Slovenian carnies can be very swarmy, buckfast is safer

Agreed...don’t think they’ve done the work on them like the Germans or Americans

 

[B+.]

A paradigm shift is a major change in the concepts and practices of how something works or is accomplished

Nonsense.
A paradigm is just a way of thinking. Whenever new information becomes available that contradicts an incorrect assumption, your frame of reference has to change. It's as simple as that.

 

[mbc]

Slovenian carnies can be very swarmy, buckfast is safer

But hey, at 16€ a pop, why not snarl up the local gene pool for a quick fix of new queens for a selfish short term honey crop, sounds like a great idea

 

[Beefriendly]

But hey, at 16€ a pop, why not snarl up the local gene pool for a quick fix of new queens for a selfish short term honey crop, sounds like a great idea

Given how P%%SS poor the local gene pool is then many would say the imported genomes will help to improve it.

 

[Lancs Lad]

Doubt they will score highly enough on Boris's new immigration policies to be a threat
But seriously what new diseases are we likely to import with bees that will cause there demise.
I propose absolutely nothing that we haven't got already.

Meet the new kids on the block, they have jumped species and are now on Apis Mellifera.
I reckon it is 45 years since I first heard of Varroa and at the time it seemed a bit over the top to think that it would cause major problems for bees, how wrong could I have been.

http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/MISC/BEES/Tropilaelaps.htm
https://beeaware.org.au/archive-pest/tropilaelaps-2/#ad-image-0

 

[mbc]

Given how P%%SS poor the local gene pool is then many would say the imported genomes will help to improve it.

The gene pool all across the British isles is fine, what it needs is stabilising, selection and improving, not continually being stirred up and challenged by large proportions of foreign material being continually added.
This thread is full of allusions as to how far ahead the Germans are when it comes to bee breeding, does anyone imagine they got where they are with lazy, selfish beekeepers continually mixing things up by importing bees from elsewhere for their own short term benefit?

 

[foghornleghorn]

But hey, at 16€ a pop, why not snarl up the local gene pool for a quick fix of new queens for a selfish short term honey crop, sounds like a great idea

Buckfast can be gotten for the same price and will do better

 

[Beefriendly]

the Germans are when it comes to bee breeding, does anyone imagine they got where they are with lazy, selfish beekeepers continually mixing things up by importing bees from elsewhere for their own short term benefit?

The Germans had the sense to realise that their local black bees, like most of ours, where rubbish. So they committed genocide by getting rid of them and imported Carniolans.
So yes, in effect they imported their bees for their own short and Long term benefit.

 

[For want of a better word]

Meet the new kids on the block, they have jumped species and are now on Apis Mellifera.
I reckon it is 45 years since I first heard of Varroa and at the time it seemed a bit over the top to think that it would cause major problems for bees, how wrong could I have been.

http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/MISC/BEES/Tropilaelaps.htm
https://beeaware.org.au/archive-pest/tropilaelaps-2/#ad-image-0

SPOT ON

Potentially EVERY honey bee imported into the UK by whatever means is a treat to the UK population.

Will "produce of EU and Non EU countries" bee a reason why the consumer will leave such honey products on the shelf?

I doubt it, but then I am one of the 58% majority of remoaners!

Double edged sword .... sward... word..... some are going to fall on it!