Importation of bees

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Brian Bush 

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It's not as exciting since they gelded JBM.
It may not be as exciting but it certainly has made the site more polite and interesting under new management. Dani has said what a difficult job it is to keep a balance.
Many of the poachers have become good gamekeepers!!!
 

Brian Bush 

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I have used the Kent supplier a few times in the past. It will certainly be even fewer in the future. I do not mind receiving his adverts and offers but I do have a personal objection to being canvassed about a petition which IMHO is a load of hype.
We can still import queens from abroad and I would think this is all most beekeepers would wish to do. The selling of packages to the public has become more fashionable again lately. If it was an importer of packages for pollination services I would be concerned at possible knock on effects. Depriving a few new beekeepers of a package to start their beekeeping does not worry me at all.
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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Too many - but not nearly enough
Considering everything that gets smuggled across that border bees is the least of it.
Fuel is a really common one. Several "farmers" who allegedly have links to certain paramilitary organisations have farms that straddle the border, and diesel tanks on both sides. Allegedly they might accidentally siphon fuel from one tank to the other... Thomas Murphy (Irish republican) - Wikipedia
since there hasn't been a border for quite a few years now, I'd get some fresh 'facts' if I were you
 

Drewdrew 

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JBM is a BBKA mole, sent to infiltrate us, by means of reverse psychology. He reports back to the BBKA all those who do not confirm to its strict training processes and procedures (the last person to admit using only 8 nails in a frame, hasn't been seen or heard from in a couple of months).

Some say he's wet behind the ears, and a bit fiery. Others say he's Welsh.
 

pnkemp 

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since there hasn't been a border for quite a few years now, I'd get some fresh 'facts' if I were you
No border? Well that will be a shock to all the inhabitants of Northern Ireland, especially the Unionists. I take it you've never been to NI and noticed it's attached to a whole different country which has different tax rates for things like fuel, clothing and so on? And lots of people in prison for smuggling across this border that you don't believe exists. SMDH

Is there a big fence, no, but that doesn't make it any less a border.
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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No border? Well that will be a shock to all the inhabitants of Northern Ireland, especially the Unionists. I take it you've never been to NI and noticed it's attached to a whole different country which has different tax rates for things like fuel, clothing and so on? And lots of people in prison for smuggling across this border that you don't believe exists. SMDH

Is there a big fence, no, but that doesn't make it any less a border.
well the border posts were taken down a long time ago, most of my colleagues who worked the border are either retired or are on the verge of, and there has been free movement from the North and South ever since the GF agreement - or don't you watch the news?
 

Apple 

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Might be a good idea for us to move away from the subject of NI politics ... and move back to beekeeping :)
Seems that due to the Kent Bee Importer/ commercial beekeeper.. attempting to use NI as a smugglers paradise... the two have become inextricably entwined!
 

Apiarist 

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Here's a petition being promoted on Facebook
The creator of this Petition, Tim Bray, states in his description,

"There is recent evidence that the native Black Bee Apis Mellifera Mellifera, also known as the western Honey Bee, is as productive as most other species imported into the country and just as easily kept as other species. There are a lot of myths about the native Honey Bee much of which is currently being dispelled as hearsay"

when he says "evidence" I assume he means scientific evidence, is anyone aware of the Papers to which he must be referring to?
 

Into the lions den 

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The creator of this Petition, Tim Bray, states in his description,

"There is recent evidence that the native Black Bee Apis Mellifera Mellifera, also known as the western Honey Bee, is as productive as most other species imported into the country and just as easily kept as other species. There are a lot of myths about the native Honey Bee much of which is currently being dispelled as hearsay"

when he says "evidence" I assume he means scientific evidence, is anyone aware of the Papers to which he must be referring to?
I( think there would be quite some difficulty in accessing papers about the performance of other species. Has anyone here actually tried working with other species? Do not recall seeing many wild dorsata colonies around the forests, or people keeping dinky little florea colonies in their neat little suburban gardens......

but then...by using the name of the bee he did he is talking about ONE subspecies/race. The western honey bee includes all the various types commonly used.

The petition is thus incompetently and contradictorily worded. Invalid even before the first signature.
 

madasafish 

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The creator of this Petition, Tim Bray, states in his description,

"There is recent evidence that the native Black Bee Apis Mellifera Mellifera, also known as the western Honey Bee, is as productive as most other species imported into the country and just as easily kept as other species. There are a lot of myths about the native Honey Bee much of which is currently being dispelled as hearsay"

when he says "evidence" I assume he means scientific evidence, is anyone aware of the Papers to which he must be referring to?

The Germans have 50 years of unbroken statistics proving exactly the reverse of his claim.

Now if he quoted honey yields- for a couple of decades to rule out the effects of weather variations- I would believe him.


And if he had any statistics, he would publish them for all to see.

"as productive as most other species"... are weasel words.
 

mbc 

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well the border posts were taken down a long time ago, most of my colleagues who worked the border are either retired or are on the verge of, and there has been free movement from the North and South ever since the GF agreement - or don't you watch the news?
My Irish friends always insist the Irish border is the beach
 

mbc 

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The Germans have 50 years of unbroken statistics proving exactly the reverse of his claim.

Now if he quoted honey yields- for a couple of decades to rule out the effects of weather variations- I would believe him.


And if he had any statistics, he would publish them for all to see.

"as productive as most other species"... are weasel words.
I'd be interested to see these 50 years of unbroken statistics, or maybe the pot was calling the kettle a weasel?
 

B+. 

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I'd be interested to see these 50 years of unbroken statistics, or maybe the pot was calling the kettle a weasel?
The entire database would be overwhelming. Probably the most up-to-date status report is:
Hoppe, A.; Du, M.; Bernstein, R.; Tiesler, F.-K.; Kärcher, M.; Bienefeld, K. Substantial Genetic Progress in the International Apis mellifera carnica Population Since the Implementation of Genetic Evaluation. Insects 2020, 11, 768. Substantial Genetic Progress in the International Apis mellifera carnica Population Since the Implementation of Genetic Evaluation
 

mbc 

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The entire database would be overwhelming. Probably the most up-to-date status report is:
Hoppe, A.; Du, M.; Bernstein, R.; Tiesler, F.-K.; Kärcher, M.; Bienefeld, K. Substantial Genetic Progress in the International Apis mellifera carnica Population Since the Implementation of Genetic Evaluation. Insects 2020, 11, 768. Substantial Genetic Progress in the International Apis mellifera carnica Population Since the Implementation of Genetic Evaluation
Thanks, where does that state "exactly the reverse"?
 

Apiarist 

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You asked for
"...50 years of unbroken statistics..."
that article is a good start, it's a substantial read.

But you may be looking for this,


you will need to number crunch the statistics quite a bit - I did it over a long evening (can't remember where I put my handwritten notes to get you the exact figures).

In short, from memory, it showed that the sub-species that had the longest established breeding groups also had the lowest aggression and lowest swarmyness, and the highest hygienic score; inversely the sub-species that either had no well established national breeding groups (using the most modern methods such as genetic evaluation and II) or recently established ones, have the worst scores: This would be the Source that Madasafish would require to back up his "exactly the reverse" claim.

Hope this helps - there's a LOT of really interesting and thought provoking stuff in those two articles :D
 
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