Importation of bees

[Mint Bee]

looks like DEFRA still say no..

https://deframedia.blog.gov.uk/2021/02/08/bee-importation/

 

[Nige.Coll]

looks like DEFRA still say no..

https://deframedia.blog.gov.uk/2021/02/08/bee-importation/

Still offering him a loophole.
That reads like if a company in NI bought the packages and then sold them to him it would be legal.

 

[Newbeeneil]

Because of his public declarations I think anything he does now would be seen as avoidance.

"HMRC have anti-avoidance measures in place to ensure that only genuine trade between NI and GB benefits from unfettered market access."

 

[Mint Bee]

that not how I read it, but like the forum it would be boring if we all had the same opinions
its the comment on importation to GB from the EU (which included NI for imports) that makes me think they are still excluding the route

BE website statement says 'live bee deposits are non refundable unless legislation changes'

Statement from DEFRA reads like a clarification of the third country transition status rather than a change

 

[HughMann]

'live bee deposits are non refundable unless legislation changes'

Statement from DEFRA reads like a clarification of the third country transition status rather than a change

Yep - no legislation change, just a membership change
Don't waste your deposits - set a swarm trap (or 20)

 

[benjamind]

Will someone please tell me where I can find a local bee suitable for those conditions?

Naturally the local bee can cope with all this but spends half its time in the hive complaining it’s too cold / wet / dry / hot before finally getting on with some foraging after the tenth cuppa.

 

[Ian123]

BE website statement says 'live bee deposits are non refundable unless legislation changes'

Statement from DEFRA reads like a clarification of the third country transition status rather than a change

Ok let’s not spread b&ll@cks, deposits are refundable.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Ok let’s not spread b&ll@cks, deposits are refundable.

Ian, his website does say they require non refundable deposits of £60 per unit

 

[Mint Bee]

Ian, I would agree with you that deposits should be refundable. That's why i flagged up the wording - its contradictory. I think its for Patrick to clarify.
FWIW I've previously purchased packages from BE and was happy with them

 

[Ian123]

Ian, his website does say they require non refundable deposits of £60 per unit

“As you may have seen we have been making headlines this week with regards to importing bees and threats from DEFRA. There is no legal basis for DEFRA preventing the import of bees from Northern Ireland.

If you place an order or have placed an order for a package of bees, your £60 deposit goes into our separate bank account where it will be held. Should any of the circumstance change regarding COVID or import legislation, a full refund of these deposits will begiven.

The Bee Equipment Team”..........................that’s on his site on the order page. Maybe people are just reading standard terms

 

[isc26]

New Defra press release
https://deframedia.blog.gov.uk/2021/02/08/bee-importation/

 

[Into the lions den]

Ian, I would agree with you that deposits should be refundable. That's why i flagged up the wording - its contradictory. I think its for Patrick to clarify.
FWIW I've previously purchased packages from BE and was happy with them

I don't think its *particularly* contradictory.

I he cannot get them in because of the rules then it is refundable.

If he CAN get them in but the customer bails out due to their own reasons (change of mind..publicity..pressure from bee inspector..peer pressure..their own conscience...etc etc) then its non refundable. Its quite a hardline position. The other importers are unable/unwilling to go through the hoops.....there will be plenty of buyers. I am sending those who really need April bees his way now.

This still has a lot of running to do...all these responses from on high are a sign that indecision is the current state of play.

 

[Ian123]

“If you place an order or have placed an order for a package of bees, your £60 deposit goes into our separate bank account where it will be held. Should any of the circumstance change regarding COVID or import legislation, a full refund of these deposits will begiven.”.......................I don’t think the guy can be any clearer. Deposits are refundable.

 

[mbc]

The publicity in the press has added an edge of panic to some messages in my inbox, I'm sure other vendors of home grown nucs are similarly assailed.
It's a bit early for most folks to even contemplate checking for deadouts so I hope it all calms down or there'll riots in March!

 

[Into the lions den]

Still offering him a loophole.
That reads like if a company in NI bought the packages and then sold them to him it would be legal.

Just read it thoroughly for the first time...was otherwise engaged all evening and came in to a mail box full of people asking advice on this.

The key points in it are not new.

It is legal to import these bees into Northern Ireland.
Once in 'free circulation' in NI they can be exports to the UK.
They are doing no checks.

Renders the part about the transfer to the UK having to be genuine rather moot. Its not in the spirit of the rules, but it is most unlikely they will be intercepted.

Still riddled with issues....some will read it as a green light...other the opposite.

My reading of it is they do not think there is a lot they can do once they enter free circulation in NI.

Normal imports of packages have some very strict procedures. The relevant authorities get to know where every single one goes from us so they can see the bees decanted if they wish, inspect the packaging etc..draw samples if they wish, and do follow up checks later. Wonder what happens after they exit NI to the UK? How will the NBU etc keep track of them or do they just vanish into the ether? If NOT then I expect people will be seeing a lot of their bee inspector.

 

[Nige.Coll]

HMRC have anti avoidance measures.
Avoiding the tax that bees don't have ?
I think If they were sold by a NI business then that would be a legitimate trade.

It's an absolute cluster ****.
I don't think this publicity will do him any good in the long run.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

HMRC have anti avoidance measures.
Avoiding the tax that bees don't have ?

HMRC aren't just a tax collecting agency - they also control/enforce export/import regulations and processes, it was all chopped around and fiddled about with some time ago with Border Force just controlling immigration and the smuggling side of things.

 

[Newbeeneil]

Maybe we should look at the reasons for the ban on importation of the bees?

My concern is the possible importation of SHB and Tropilaelaps ( worth a watch if you like Dr Sammy Ramsey ) in nucs or packages. Not a problem with queens.
My thought is that if BE have packages available in the spring they will have come via NI and as ITLD say there is unlikely to be any trail or chance of inspection.

We are therefore potentially in a situation where the NI protocol will put the bio security of the UK at greater risk than when we were members of the EU which is I'm sure, not what any of us (including BE) want.

 

[Ian123]

HMRC have anti avoidance measures.
Avoiding the tax that bees don't have ?
I think If they were sold by a NI business then that would be a legitimate trade.

It's an absolute cluster ****.
I don't think this publicity will do him any good in the long run.

Remember there’s no such thing as bad publicity, if he can get them in the whole country is aware he has bees

 

[Ian123]

Maybe we should look at the reasons for the ban on importation of the bees?

My concern is the possible importation of SHB and Tropilaelaps ( worth a watch if you like Dr Sammy Ramsey ) in nucs or packages. Not a problem with queens.
My thought is that if BE have packages available in the spring they will have come via NI and as ITLD say there is unlikely to be any trail or chance of inspection.

We are therefore potentially in a situation where the NI protocol will put the bio security of the UK at greater risk than when we were members of the EU which is I'm sure, not what any of us (including BE) want.

It’s not a ban for health reasons in any form it’s a by product of the deal alone on a trade that’s been going on for many decades and some!