Honey sales, how much before you have to declare to the IR.

[Repwoc]

From next March, VAT returns have to be submitted 'digitally' via accounting software, under the Making Tax Digital for VAT rules. Most (or all) of the popular small business accounting packages will be MTD compliant by then (apparently).

 

[wightbees]

Gov tried that before

https://www.litrg.org.uk/latest-new...elephone-and-paper-alternatives-now-permissib

 

[Beefriendly]

From next March, VAT returns have to be submitted 'digitally' via accounting software, under the Making Tax Digital for VAT rules.

Bit misleading as a blanket statement.
Only need software submissions if your taxable turnover is over 85K....not applicable in the slightest to small businesses.
HM might need to invest in software...sage does a good line in digital returns.

 

[madasafish]

If you are in the least bit serious about selling honey it's well worth while. Although it's cheaper if you do the accounting yourself. You need to file returns on-line every three months, about 5 figures. Vat due, vat reclaimed, sales, spending minus Vat and European sales If you run a honey selling business I'd say it's almost obligatory to be VAT registered.
And before anyone starts with the 65K (or whatever) that is different issue, at those sales it's compulsory to be registered, this is voluntary registration aimed at small businesses who can benefit reclainming Vat on their purchases.

Thanks.

If my sales in 2019 are anywhere near (within 25%) of this year, it will be worth registering. So I will.

I'll do my own accounting...

 

[Beefriendly]

Thanks.

If my sales in 2019 are anywhere near (within 25%) of this year, it will be worth registering. So I will.

You can backdate three years on your first set of accounts....but you cannot backdate jars/lids or diesel that has already been used. But of course you can include them in the future.
A tip though....open a business account as HMC do not like issuing you with a vat number for a personal account.
Note if you are VAT registered and sell candles you need to add VAT to them as they are not VAT free.

 

[BMH]

I'm VAT registered and fill in my own tax returns but do often find myself struggling to categorise certain expenditure:

I've listed a few below and would be interested to hear where these fall within your accounts:

Hives, supers, brood boxes, roofs, floors etc - capital allowances

Frames - Capital allowances

Wax Foundation - Cost of goods sold (as I sell nucs) but I suppose it could be classed as an expense

Diesel for driving - claimed at 45p under expenses using the simple method so this covers insurance, tyres, servicing, breakdown cover etc

Clothing and gloves - expenses

Broadband and phone line - I claim a small portion of these under expenses

Correx nuc boxes - cost of goods sold

Bought in queens - cost of goods sold (although I dont sell them all) so they could also fall under expenses

You can see from the above that some dont sit right and can fall within two categories.

Also, when I'm selling a nuc I charge VAT on the correx nuc box, frames and wax. Only amounts to about £3.50 per nuc but as I'm claiming vAT back on these items I obviously need to charge the vat as I sell them, even though the actual colony is zero rated.

Does anybody else do this and if so, what are your calculations?

 

[Tim1606]

From next March, VAT returns have to be submitted 'digitally' via accounting software, under the Making Tax Digital for VAT rules. Most (or all) of the popular small business accounting packages will be MTD compliant by then (apparently).

Spoke to our accountant back in April about this and she said, small business’s will need to submit online with MTD software but NOT until 2020. She also said this may change as it was supposed to be 2019. Bee Farming is my only income and it is not easy to make large profits.

 

[Tim1606]

Bit misleading as a blanket statement.
Only need software submissions if your taxable turnover is over 85K....not applicable in the slightest to small businesses.
HM might need to invest in software...sage does a good line in digital returns.

We use Sage but there are free ones out there as well. Small business’s will need to submit digital but not at the moment. See my other post.

 

[For want of a better word]

Also, when I'm selling a nuc I charge VAT on the correx nuc box, frames and wax. Only amounts to about £3.50 per nuc but as I'm claiming vAT back on these items I obviously need to charge the vat as I sell them, even though the actual colony is zero rated.

If the value of the container is SUBSTANTIALLY LESS than the value of the contents ( ie the bees) then the whole can be zero rated.
VAT can be reclaimed on the consumables... ie nuc boxes frames and foundation.

Similarly with selling queens in mailing cages.

BUT if you sold them individually ( without bees) the selling price of the nuc frames and foundation would require VAT to be added to you selling price.

A note of caution... if you take deposits for nuc to be provided at a future date ensure you understand the complexity of VAT regulations on taking deposits!


We use Quickbooks... makes life much easier!

Chons da

 

[BMH]

Also, when I'm selling a nuc I charge VAT on the correx nuc box, frames and wax. Only amounts to about £3.50 per nuc but as I'm claiming vAT back on these items I obviously need to charge the vat as I sell them, even though the actual colony is zero rated.

If the value of the container is SUBSTANTIALLY LESS than the value of the contents ( ie the bees) then the whole can be zero rated.
VAT can be reclaimed on the consumables... ie nuc boxes frames and foundation.

Similarly with selling queens in mailing cages.

BUT if you sold them individually ( without bees) the selling price of the nuc frames and foundation would require VAT to be added to you selling price.

A note of caution... if you take deposits for nuc to be provided at a future date ensure you understand the complexity of VAT regulations on taking deposits!


We use Quickbooks... makes life much easier!

Chons da

Care to summarise the wording around VAT on deposits?

That's good to know in terms of charging VAT on nucs.

So I can just invoice at zero VAT for everything.

 

[wightbees]

Vat scares the hell out of me, that's why I never bothered with it. Being under vat limit, my best option would be to hire a accountant I suppose..

 

[BMH]

Think I've got my head round the deposits.

If I take a £20 deposit and then charge the remaining £160 at a later date, the VAT is payable when I take the deposit.

If I give the deposit back at time for full payment and request full payment, the VaT is payable when full payment is made.

Anyone care to confirm if I'm anywhere near it???

 

[For want of a better word]

Care to summarise the wording around VAT on deposits?

It depends if HMRC decides if the deposit is a "sale" per se... or part of a further transaction that may be Vattable or not!

That's good to know in terms of charging VAT on nucs.
That is what HMRC decision was last year

So I can just invoice at zero VAT for everything.
No....

Honey for instance is a food and zero rated.... but if you put it in a very expensive container worth substantially more than its contents VAT would be chargeable.

Or if you sold a WRC National hive with roof floor additional supers/ frames/ foundation etc full of bees... you would have to charge VAT on the lot.... including the bees!

A little common sense seems to go a long way with the HMRC it seems!!

BUT I am a beekeeper not an accountant!

 

[BMH]

Sorry. I was referring specifically to nucs sold in cheap correx boxes. I meant everything in terms or bees, queen, frames, wax, box... etc

I get your logic.

Thanks for clearing that up

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

 

[Repwoc]

Only need software submissions if your taxable turnover is over 85K....not applicable in the slightest to small businesses.

Good point - thanks for clarifying that.

 

[Beefriendly]

Good point - thanks for clarifying that.

I'd like to think that one day I will be required to submit by software .

 

[Hedgerow Honey]

I just leave it to the accountant, any mistakes their problem not mine, only thing I sell vatable is candles.

 

[Repwoc]

only thing I sell vatable is candles.

There is a distinction between zero rated taxable supplies and exempt. Honey is zero rated for VAT, which means it is a taxable supply. The amount of tax is of course zero, but zero rated sales are included in taxable turnover.

 

[For want of a better word]

There is a distinction between zero rated taxable supplies and exempt. Honey is zero rated for VAT, which means it is a taxable supply. The amount of tax is of course zero, but zero rated sales are included in taxable turnover.

Importation from EU countries where the VAT is charged at a different rate ( eg Germany 19%) can be reclaimed ( at present) UK also has an arrangement where goods purchased as capital expenditure and not to be resold once imported are not charged for VAT in the supplying EU country, and thus are exempt from VAT in the UK ( ie you can not reclaim it as it has not been charged).

Moral is to buy any large bits of beekeeping kit you need asap and before we stupidly leave the EU... or PAY THE PRICE.

On VAT the HMRC helpline is very useful... nothing scary about it at all... they are quite understanding that VAT is a subsidy for (Bee) farmers.

Chons da

 

[dpearce4]

We use Sage but there are free ones out there as well. Small business’s will need to submit digital but not at the moment. See my other post.

Hi Tim

could you suggest any of the free ones please?