Examining a Flow Hive

[Tremyfro]

I guess you could put a Flow on any hive. Some people have been adjusting their long hive to put them inside....others are going to try putting them on top.
There are quite a few beekeepers who have bought Flows to try out. So by the end of the summer we will know how they perform...someone is bound to get a good nectar flow!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Can you put one on a Top Bar?

I know you've said that tongue in cheek but there are people on here stupid enough to believe it - can't be supered as the top bars having no spacing become the 'crownboard' - putting them behind the brood is obviously a ridiculous idea as well - even if they were made with the natural catenary shape of TBH induced comb building it would turn into a mess of brace comb and cross combing.

 

[Tremyfro]

I know you've said that tongue in cheek but there are people on here stupid enough to believe it - can't be supered as the top bars having no spacing become the 'crownboard' - putting them behind the brood is obviously a ridiculous idea as well - even if they were made with the natural catenary shape of TBH induced comb building it would turn into a mess of brace comb and cross combing.

In a long hive...you can use regular frames.....some people have plans to put the Flow frames alongside within the hive and others are putting the Flow frames above...like adding a super. There are some beekeepers who are building long langstroth hives to accommodate the Flow frames.
Nobody said anything about putting them on a TBH...Erica was joking....as everyone else recognised....and we all silently tittered. Phil is using his without modification...as far as I know.
You may wish to know that the Flow hive is working well. Although some beekeepers have experienced a hesitation by the bees to start storing honey in the frames. From what I hear....that is because the nectar flow was slow or falling off when the frames were introduced....no different from putting a super on at the wrong time. Once a nectar flow started.....the bees filled the frames. I am in contact with a number of previously anti Flow beekeepers...who are now beginning to say that it is working...in their area. We have yet to try it in the UK....but there are enough spread about here for us to get an idea of its usefulness...other than a Bee Yard ornament.

 

[pargyle]

So Phil Chandler, noted natural beekeepr in Devon, has decided to try a flow hive out this season too. I follow him on f a c e book so will watch for updates.
KR

S

Well ... that's going to upset a few of his followers !! His past stance was very much Top Bar only tolerated ... I had a few exchanges with Phil in the early days with my Long Deep Hive and he was less than impressed with the suggestion that foundationless frames were still in keeping with his beekeeping philosophy.

Indeed, if he is trying one out then there's a distinct u-turn from his original position on the FM ...

"First, it is not a new hive, but simply an add-on to a conventional hive - really just a set of special frames, and only for honey, not brood. This removes many objections on the grounds of 'propolis jamming it up' and 'eggs laid in plastic foundation' - they are simply not going to happen if it is used correctly.

I don't like plastic in hives - particularly plastic foundation - and I don't like unnecessary disturbances in the lives of bees, BUT - this device actually reduces such disturbance, as well as removing the need for a centrifugal extractor and other extraction/bottling equipment, so from that point of view, it is 'greener', provided it has a long life, which it should have, given that the moving parts only move infrequently and with little load stress.

As a piece of thoughtful engineering I think it is remarkable. I was invited to look at it and contribute my thoughts about 6 months before the launch, and while I expressed some reservations - particularly about crystallization of honey in the combs - I could see that, for some people, this was what they had been waiting for to take up beekeeping.

I still prefer to do my beekeeping in top bar hives, because of their simplicity of construction and use and bee-friendly design, but given that many people prefer to use movable-frame hives, I see this device as a possible alternative to the 'box-removal and centrifugal extraction' method that may appeal to some beekeepers. "

And this was the watered down version of his statement used by the Flow Team for 'Endorsement'.

 

[Tremyfro]

Good for him...at least Phil will be able to see for himself how it works. He has said he likes innovation ...trying out ideas....presumably, that is how he came to develop his own ideas.....so I can't see why people should be upset. A blinkered approach can never be good. It stifles progress. Beekeepers, that I have met, seem on the whole to be interested in new ways of doing things. Trying different techniques and manipulations and sharing ideas. We see a lot of this on the forum. Apart from a few who have taken a stance with little or no actual knowledge of the Flow...I have found nearly everyone to be genuinely interested.

 

[BeeJayBee]

So Phil Chandler, noted natural beekeepr in Devon, has decided to try a flow hive out this season too. I follow him on f a c e book so will watch for updates.

Maybe he's at last acknowledging that there's nothing 'natural' about keeping bees in a wooden box, no matter what shape it is, so is moving over to plastics.

I see this device as a possible alternative to the 'box-removal and centrifugal extraction' method that may appeal to some beekeepers.

It's amazing how getting something for free can make a difference! There I was thinking he was an advocate of crush and strain!

 

[madasafish]

Good for him...at least Phil will be able to see for himself how it works. He has said he likes innovation ...trying out ideas....presumably, that is how he came to develop his own ideas.....so I can't see why people should be upset. A blinkered approach can never be good. It stifles progress. Beekeepers, that I have met, seem on the whole to be interested in new ways of doing things. Trying different techniques and manipulations and sharing ideas. We see a lot of this on the forum. Apart from a few who have taken a stance with little or no actual knowledge of the Flow...I have found nearly everyone to be genuinely interested.

Given his vituperative (and deeply unpleasant) rant when I suggested that framed hives were easier to work than TBHs, I place him firmly in the "don't do as I do, do as I say " camp.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes, when I met him once at some beekeepers' convention he seemed a very intolerant chap.

 

[Erichalfbee]

This is what he's just said

Like Michael Bush, I was consulted about the Flow hive some months prior to its launch, which some people may consider odd, considering my advocacy of 'natural beekeeping', but which I took to be a sign of the integrity and open-mindedness of the inventors. I gave my honest feedback, which expressed admiration for the idea and the execution, together with some concerns over extraction of fast-crystallizing honey, such as from OSR (Brassica napa) and ivy (Hedera helix) and thixotropic honey from heather (Calluna vulgaris).

Post launch, I was repeatedly asked for my opinion of the Flow on social media and I responded with pretty much the same feedback as I had given the makers, with the caveat that until I had tried it for myself, my opinion was worth no more than anyone else's. I was duly attacked by the Taliban faction of the 'natural beekeeping' movement, who told me that it was disgraceful to be defending this "honey factory" and that it was the work of the Devil himself (more or less).

Now I have taken delivery of a very handsome Flow hive, I look forward to trying it out and forming an opinion based on actual experience rather than speculation. It's a shame that these vociferous critics cannot bring themselves to do the same.



I see there appears to be a natural beekeeping Taliban Faction

 

[Erichalfbee]

So Phil Chandler, noted natural beekeepr in Devon, has decided to try a flow hive out this season too. I follow him on f a c e book so will watch for updates.
KR

S

So has the inspectorate seemingly.
From FB
Flow are sending a Hive to the NBU for the inspectors conference. With the inspectors on board and there is a new position staring next month for research at the NBU - the new researcher will will be looing into all things bees and Flow is on the top of the list

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

......... the new researcher will will be looing into all things bees and Flow is on the top of the list

Surely, that's taking the p*ss!

Dusty

 

[Tremyfro]

I can't help feeling that this is the wrong way to go about it. Pushing the Flow hive under people's noses is not the way to get it accepted. Myself...I feel it needs to be used for a few seasons by enough beekeepers to form a view over its use in the UK.
Apart from looking at it...when it isn't in use there isn't much to say.
It is clear that it works as we have seen and heard enough from beekeepers in the other hemisphere.
I can only think that it will be met by much resistance and not achieve the acceptance it truly deserves.
If the forum is anything to go by...some of the comments will be rather pithy.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Flow are sending a Hive to the NBU for the inspectors conference.

Wonder how they will dispose of them in the case of AFB/EFB, and who gets to pay, and will they be covered by the normal insurance that some BKA members have.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well, the expensive bit is plastic so I suppose you can sterilise it. The brood box is a wooden Lang so you can deal with that in the usual way.
I heard somewhere that call me Dave was going to have one in the garden

 

[Erichalfbee]

Surely, that's taking the p*ss!

Dusty

OOOps. not my typo, though; just a copy paste job

 

[For want of a better word]

I heard somewhere that call me Dave was going to have one in the garden

I heard that he was a fully qualified beekeeper!


Nos da

 

[Hivemaker.]

Well, the expensive bit is plastic so I suppose you can sterilise it.

Normal combs and frames are destroyed by the bee inspector, and hives sterilized, cannot imagine the bee inspectors having time to drain these frames if need be, then stripping and sterilizing them, but maybe they will.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Maybe that's why they need some to practice on.
It would be like a field gun strip and rebuild exercise

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

, cannot imagine the bee inspectors having time to drain these frames if need be, then stripping and sterilizing them, but maybe they will.

Maybe that's why they need some to practice on.
It would be like a field gun strip and rebuild exercise

I don't know about strip down and sterilize - saw Frank at the farmer's coop last week - choosing a new sledgehammer

 

[pargyle]

Maybe he's at last acknowledging that there's nothing 'natural' about keeping bees in a wooden box, no matter what shape it is, so is moving over to plastics.


It's amazing how getting something for free can make a difference! There I was thinking he was an advocate of crush and strain!

Well ... He softened his 'natural beekeeping' stance a few years ago and changed his tag line to Balanced Beekeeping ... but I really am amazed that he's going to try one - there isn't much that is as far removed from bees being allowed to do what is natural to them (ie: Build comb and fill it with honey) than plastic flow frames.

I don't really care either way about the thing .. it is clever reinvention of something that was thought about but not progressed years ago, it was very clever (and actually not very truthful) marketing that has got it this far ... But ... my beekeeping principles would be seriously jeopardised if I was to shove one on the top of my treatment free, foundationless, well balanced bees ... so, I won't be trying one - free or not.

I'm surprised at Phil, there's bending your principles and there's breaking them up into small pieces and chucking them out the window !!