Examining a Flow Hive

[Tremyfro]

Yes that was the video...from Perth.
The recommendation is to open a few cells at a time.....all the cells are separate from each other...so opening them like that makes it easier.
I wonder if you could just harvest half a frame? Well ....all will become clear eventually.
I'm not sure what has happened in the post on the Flow Forum.....I don't know why the nectar would run down like that. Perhaps the cells were left in the open position?...or perhaps they were assembled incorrectly ....I expect the advisors will soon be posting and giving advice. I will watch out for it.
I had seen the video of the Flow Frame being extracted outside the hive....there was quite a lot of discussion on this forum at the time. Some people thought it was rather misleading and that a lot of the honey ran out underneath the frame and was spirited away. Certainly you could see some honey running down the face of the comb...although most of the comb remained intact.
I don't know all the answers....perhaps this summer will provide some.

 

[For want of a better word]

I don't know all the answers....perhaps this summer will provide some.

I do hope so... the second year of keeping bees is always a very trying time... not that I can remember that far back!

I think you are very brave to jump into the deep end with your Flow's hives and obviously have become something of an expert... so the best of luck and keep us all posted!

Yeghes da

 

[Tremyfro]

I don't know all the answers....perhaps this summer will provide some.

I do hope so... the second year of keeping bees is always a very trying time... not that I can remember that far back!

I think you are very brave to jump into the deep end with your Flow's hives and obviously have become something of an expert... so the best of luck and keep us all posted!

Yeghes da

Not so very brave....I can assure you...and certainly no expert. However, learning all the time. This year will be my third summer....
Aiming for no increase this year...so a beady eye to avoid swarming and maintain strong colonies.
In regard to the Flow Hive.....anyone who has one will be learning firstly whether it is possible to use it...probably not if we have a poor summer again. Secondly, they need to remember that it is an extraction tool...nothing else. Thirdly....to enjoy the experience and have fun..
I am not an advocate for the Flow Hive.....but I am interested in it.

 

[Tom Bick]

Yes that was the video...from Perth.
The recommendation is to open a few cells at a time.....all the cells are separate from each other...so opening them like that makes it easier.
I wonder if you could just harvest half a frame? Well ....all will become clear eventually.
I'm not sure what has happened in the post on the Flow Forum.....I don't know why the nectar would run down like that. Perhaps the cells were left in the open position?...or perhaps they were assembled incorrectly ....I expect the advisors will soon be posting and giving advice. I will watch out for it.
I had seen the video of the Flow Frame being extracted outside the hive....there was quite a lot of discussion on this forum at the time. Some people thought it was rather misleading and that a lot of the honey ran out underneath the frame and was spirited away. Certainly you could see some honey running down the face of the comb...although most of the comb remained intact.
I don't know all the answers....perhaps this summer will provide some.

Thanks no doubt in time you will update on your progress.

 

[BeeJayBee]

It might be this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOxOsoij0fg

Did I miss the bit where she checked the honey with a refractometer?

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Not so very brave....I can assure you...and certainly no expert. However, learning all the time. This year will be my third summer....
Aiming for no increase this year...so a beady eye to avoid swarming and maintain strong colonies.
In regard to the Flow Hive.....anyone who has one will be learning firstly whether it is possible to use it...probably not if we have a poor summer again. Secondly, they need to remember that it is an extraction tool...nothing else. Thirdly....to enjoy the experience and have fun..
I am not an advocate for the Flow Hive.....but I am interested in it.

I don't know where you stand on the insulation debate for wooden beehives in UK conditions but, no matter how well made the Flow Hives are, they are still made of only relatively thin wood and would, in my view, benefit from being insulated. Problem is, all those knobs and levers make a slide-on-and-off insulation sleeve difficult to fit without large gaps between super and insulation.

While you sitting there waiting for the paint to dry on your new hive, have a think how it can be insulated so that you have nice warm honey to extract and not a cold and crystallised sticky mess. I'm exaggerating for dramatic effect but you get my drift!

CVB

 

[Tremyfro]

You are absolutely right about the insulation.
It was interesting that someone posted about the difference they found between the poly and the wooden hives in regard to OSR honey. They found that the honey in the wooden hives was crystallising way before the honey in the polys.
I had already been thinking about insulation. I only have polys and beehaus ...which are well insulated. Wood is a new experience for me. It does seem crazy to house them in such a container...the wood is the same thickness as usual cedar hives but not to be compared to a tree trunk.
The brood box...is as usual ....so a cosy made from celotex would be easy. The actual Flow super has knobs on 2 sides...so some accommodation needs to be thought about for these. It needs to be easily removable so I can get to the doors for harvesting. Or the other way would be to have removable pieces of celotex to match the size of the doors...with small pieces cut out for the knobs etc.....that I think, might work better....then just leave it on for harvest...removing only the cut outs. The tricky bit would be when lifting the box for inspection......well it does need some thought.
My beehaus have sheepswool insulation in the walls.....it may be possible to make a sleeve from that inside a plastic bag which simply drops over the super.
I can't see me wintering the bees in the wooden hive though...I will probably transfer them into a poly.

 

[Tremyfro]

Did I miss the bit where she checked the honey with a refractometer?

I guess we mostly assume that if the honey is capped...then it is ready for extraction.
I only used my refractometer, last year, when extracting the OSR...as some was extracted before it was capped.

 

[For want of a better word]

For interest as we seem to have the UK's experts on Flow's Hives on here
Do you leave this hive out over winter or just put the plastic comb thingies on when there is a flow of nectar.
If we had a hard winter like the one of 1963 shirly the cold would shatter all the slidy plastic bits?
My take is that these devices were designed for use in hot countries, not for our Northern Maritime climate.
Straw poll on the 200 or so Ammbitious beekeepers at yesterdays BIPCo bee improvement day with guest speaker Willie Robson was that beekeepers would be more likely spend their money on a polystyrene hive or two and use Hoffman frames.

Yeghes da

 

[Erichalfbee]

I can't see me wintering the bees in the wooden hive though...I will probably transfer them into a poly.

I have one colony overwintering in a wooden box with a Recticel jacket. Easy to just lift off.
BUT
Most of my bees are in poly hives and I use wooden supers on top (unless I'm getting them to draw comb then I have a few poly ones)
There is no reason you can't put the flow super on a poly lang. You will, after all be taking the frames away for winter.
Just a thought

 

[Erichalfbee]

Did I miss the bit where she checked the honey with a refractometer?

No idea, sorry. I didn't watch it all the way through

 

[Tremyfro]

I have got a spare langstroth...it's wooden though...for swarm control ...if needed...but my plan would be to combine for the winter. I don't have a poly langstroth...only the double nuc ATM. I don't really want to get lots of langstroth equipment ...the Flow might just end up being a curiosity in the Bee Yard!

 

[wessexmario]

I thought the flow frames could be easily converted for length ?
Just dismantle and take out a couple of the sections to make it the right length for a national.

 

[Tremyfro]

For interest as we seem to have the UK's experts on Flow's Hives on here
Do you leave this hive out over winter or just put the plastic comb thingies on when there is a flow of nectar.
If we had a hard winter like the one of 1963 shirly the cold would shatter all the slidy plastic bits?
My take is that these devices were designed for use in hot countries, not for our Northern Maritime climate.
Straw poll on the 200 or so Ammbitious beekeepers at yesterdays BIPCo bee improvement day with guest speaker Willie Robson was that beekeepers would be more likely spend their money on a polystyrene hive or two and use Hoffman frames.

Yeghes da

Here you go...a quote on Aussie Weather....
Australia experiences temperate weather for most of the year but the climate can vary due to the size of our continent. The northern states typically experience warm weather much of the time, with the southern states experiencing cooler winters. Australia is also one of the driest continents on earth with an average annual rainfall of less than 600 millimetres. Like all countries in the southern hemisphere, Australia's seasons are opposite to those in the northern hemisphere. December to February is summer; March to May is autumn; June to August is winter; and September to November is spring.

I know some people who go skiing there...so not all of the country is hot.
I don't anticipate leaving any supers on during the winter...so the Flow Hive one will come off too. The rest of the Flow Hive is a normal langstroth brood box.
The plastic parts are not as brittle as expected. No sliding parts at all. Half of the cell panels lift up or down depending on whether opening or closing...but they only move a tiny amount.
I think perhaps you have allowed yourself to be influenced by some of the negative comments we have all seen about the Flow Hive. Of course it has yet to prove itself in the field...here in the UK....in AU where it has been in use...the beekeepers seem to be enjoying the novelty and the experience.
Let's not judge until we have something definite to look at.

 

[For want of a better word]

Flow might just end up being a curiosity in the Bee Yard*!

I think perhaps you have allowed yourself to be influenced by some of the negative comments we have all seen about the Flow Hive**

*A curiosity indeed!

**I have been influenced by my experience as an engineer with plastics being used under extreme conditions in the electronics and food industries... and as a beekeeper.

Weather in Australia... I doubt if many beekeepers there farm bees at over 1000 meters!... or take their bees to the heather!!!

Yeghes da

 

[charlievictorbravo]

You are absolutely right about the insulation.
It was interesting that someone posted about the difference they found between the poly and the wooden hives in regard to OSR honey. They found that the honey in the wooden hives was crystallising way before the honey in the polys.
... The actual Flow super has knobs on 2 sides...so some accommodation needs to be thought about for these. It needs to be easily removable so I can get to the doors for harvesting..

Supposing you changed the Flow Hive™ super to remove these knobs and levers. You could for instance remove the knobs and replace with strong fabric tape so that when not needed it just hangs, limp, beside the body of the super. That leaves the little wooden clips and the big lever with the FH logo on it. You could replace these with thinner sheet aluminium, or stainless steel, of the same shape but only, say 2.5mm thick so that if you were to make a cozy, there would not be a big gap between it and hive body.

If you were willing and able to do this, you could have a cozy that you just lift off for an hour or two while you're harvesting honey. When you're finished, you just slide the cozy over the top and the bees are nice and warm again and able to maintain the hive temperature without expending lots of energy. If you lived in a really hot climate, a cozy might help to moderate the extremes of temperature at the other end of the temperature scale. Do Aussi beekeepers have problems with melting wax and bees dying from the heat? I don't know.

CVB

 

[Tremyfro]

CVB.... You may be onto something there! It definitely requires working out. I haven't oiled the hive yet....other things have intervened but as soon as that is done then making a cosy will be the next job.
Icanhopit.....I doubt that they even move their hives much at all....I hear the forage is good there. Some of us in the UK keep bees in places where they may not choose to be. I suppose we all keep bees where we are at...it is what it is.
I expect all will be revealed in due course.....if we don't try it we won't know. Just for the fun of it...it is worth trying.
I am keeping an open mind about how the Flow will perform....if it achieves what it has been designed to do...well ...wonderful. Of course we must bear in mind operator error and influence.....I think it may be that some beekeepers will have more success than others....in the end it will depend on good flow, strong colonies and good beekeepers.

 

[Tremyfro]

I thought the flow frames could be easily converted for length ?
Just dismantle and take out a couple of the sections to make it the right length for a national.

Perhaps when I have used it a bit...I may change the configuration to national. To begin with I am going to use it as it is. Some people are using just a few frames in the middle of the super with wax comb either side....it would be interesting to try that too.

 

[Flow Hive Man]

Great description. I also enjoy your level and considered responses. The offset half-combs aren't like that to cut the capping though (according to Cedar anyway), they are to prevent leg trapping when the comb is re-positioned back for re-filling.

As you say, it will be an interesting Spring.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I see somebody on FB is trying to organise the NBU to train on one.
I thought it was a simple Langstroth and the flows are for extraction? What's to train? Perhaps they mean to get weight-lifting to get to the brood box. Not a snide remark....don't get me wrong. I reckon a full flow super would be a heck of a weight.